Gaza B v Alliance and Leicester

[gazab41]

Hi all I origianally had loan with alliance and liecester which included single premium payment protection

 

Now if you look carefully you will note the cost of the ppi and the intrest charged for the ppi total misssold have never ever managed to claim even when they were told I was unemployed have been in payment plans with this company for a number of years.

 

this shows the intrest on ppi insurance at £461.35

it also shows the amount of ppi as Insurance Principal £1684.85

giving total of £2146.20

 

and as this was missold I wish to claim back to hopefuly wipe out any balance owed now the question I have is would I compound the total figure at the contractral rate of 10.44% from date loan started till now or would i run compound at contractral rate till date loan should of finished and then do a simple calculation between that date and today.

 

the reason I am asking is the loan as been taken over by abbey/santander and I got a phone call from them on the 4th of january saying they would send out income and expenditure form yes I had missed a payment on 27th december for £50 they have in the past allowed me to reduce when no work forthcoming

 

Im a supply teacher and work has been very patchy last couple of years. they also said the debt might be sold on as was 16 months behind. the guy on the phone obviously lied as recived letter from westcot this morning mind you he also said that the debt could well be wiped out with payment protection cash owed and intrest added.

 

below will show some of the correspondence received

 

so any advice would be gratefully recived and anyone who knows the right way to calculate ppi claim please explain.

 

also is the orig CCA actually enforcable as that would also be interesting thanks every one:cry:

docs1.pdf

[gazab41]

good afternoon all OK here is another update the saga of this account continues I sent the Following letter

 

21/01/10

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Account Number.

Account in Dispute

 

I am in receipt of your letter dated 5th January 2010.

 

I have discovered that there is a miss sold payment protection insurance added to this account and am in the process of making an official complaint to the original creditor.

 

As there is now a genuine and valid dispute which has yet to be resolved, you will be in breach of OFT guidelines should you continue to pursue for payment.

 

Please note, that I require all communication between us to be in writing. This is in order to protect myself should this proceed to litigation. I will not enter into any discussions about my personal finances over the telephone, therefore any further attempts to contact me in that manner will be considered harassment and reported as such to the regulatory bodies.

 

Now the fun with this Account will start the DN is invalid as the address on the right hand side of the letter recived is an Address for Westcott this was confirm via a phonecall with the royal mail and an internet search.

 

The return Address on envelope refers to abbey national(santander uk) in Milton Keynes.

 

The other thing that is completely wrong and this is breaking various acts according to the people at national debt line is that this account had a default issued some years ago which is due to drop of in October 2010 and I have been told they cannot issue a further default on the same account full stop the cash owed is  what i am owed for missold ppi

 

any advice please.

[vint1954]

Hi gazab 41. Re PM, I am not up to speed on PPI, but you need to claim that back.

 

If you click the red/white triange to the left of your post, and ask that this thread be moved to the best forum for PPI, that should help.

 

Well the DN is faulty on dates ant prescribed layout. I take it that the £3383 is the full ballance. If so this also invalidates the DN. I assume this is the first DN that they have sent you.

 

Letter from westcot is clearly demanding the full ballance, therefore terminating the agreement.

 

This is unlawful rescission of the agreement. You must accept this in writing. If you search UR on the forum, you will find the letters that you need to send to Santander. Then write to Westcot advising that OC has unlawfully rescinded agreement and you are bemused as to why they are contacting you.

[gazab41]

ok I had a new letter from Wescott [in above pdf]

 

obviously the amount they still want includes single premium ppi and the intrest orig put on.

I have paid over 1200 pound back in ppi alone.

 

so I presume as it was missold they need to remove the ppi premium and intrest

refund what I made in ppi payments and add at the very least stattory intrest between date of loan and now

belive if this is the case very rough calculation means i should be up arround £100 mark any advice please this is also posted in ppi aswell thanks

 

oh forgot to say this letter arrived on the 10th feb still no response about ppi letter sent to this dca back in jan

[citizenB]

Hi gaza,

 

Have you made an attempt to reclaim the PPI ? You need to do this by writing to the original creditor.

 

There are plenty of letters around the site, but you could try this one for starters. Those sections I have highlighted in blue should be amended/deleted to suit your situation. You say you did make an attempt to claim on the policy, for what reason were you refused ?

 

 

Quote

Alliance & Leicester

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

OFFICIAL COMPLAINT

 

Re: Request for return of Payment Protection Insurance premium and contractual interest.

 

 

Account no: XXXXXX

 

On the 5th February 2001 I took out an unsecured loan with your company. But now believe that I was mis-sold this policy for the following reasons:

 

I was self employed at the time and you were aware of this.

 

I had my own business insurance (being self-employed) therefore PPI would never have been relevant to me. In respect of this, any claim would have no doubt been refused.

 

I was not asked about any previous medical conditions. I now understand that a previous medical condition I do have, could have invalidated any claim.

 

It was implied that PPI was a mandatory product that one had to have and without it, the loan would not be agreed.

 

I was not given full information on what the policy would and would not cover for example that the loan only covered the first five years of the loan term.

 

I was not advised that even though this was a joint loan, only the first named person was covered.

 

I am concerned the sales person that sold me the policy had no financial background and the policy was not sold in my best interests.

 

I was not advised that I could obtain insurance elsewhere to cover myself for this new commitment to your bank or shown any comparisons for other products in the industry – which may have been more competitive or better suited than your own. This latter concern has now been the subject of an enquiry by the Competition Commissioners Office who were especially critical of PPI

 

It was not explained to me that the policy premium would be paid upfront as a single premium and would be added to my debt and attract interest from the outset. I believe you should have disclosed to me that the single premium policy, did not give a pro-rata refund in event of early settlement.

 

I was not told that there were other options than a single premium policy, i.e. that I could take a “pay monthly one”.

 

No attempt was made to ascertain if the product provided was fit for purpose, suitable for my needs or if indeed at all. No inquiry was made as whether I had pre-existing insurance for accident, illness or unemployment. I was not given full information on what the policy would and would not cover, I was not given a copy of the insurance policy nor were any rights to cancel explained. I believe you manifestly failed in your fiduciary responsibilities, and your duty of care.

 

With reference to recent OFT and FSA investigations regarding the mis-selling of PPI by finance companies, I now believe that I was gravely misled when you mis-sold me this expensive insurance policy, which I did not want and did not need and for the reasons given above, totally unsuitable.

 

I believe you should have made it clear to me that the policy generated large profits for you. You failed to do this. I believe that you have also therefore failed in your duty of disclosure. Your failure to disclose is misrepresentation at common law.

 

Your concealment of the act of mis-selling has prevented me from asserting my right until now. I believe that there are strong grounds for action against you under common law, statute and consumer regulations.

 

The original insurance premium of £1684.85 plus interest of £ 461.35 making a total of 2146.20 which was then added to the loan amount on the 5th Februay 2001

 

If this were to proceed to litigation, Statutory 8% interest (S69 of the County Court Act) allowed by the Courts would also be payable.

 

I am writing to ask you to refund the premium paid together with interest equal to your APR at the time under the accepted principle of mutuality and reciprocity. I would also like to claim statutory compensation in view of the fact that I have been deprived of the cash over that period.

 

Financial Ombudsman Service

 

Please now investigate my complaint within the eight weeks allowed to you. If I do not receive a favourable response from you I will consider pursuing this claim through the Financial Ombudsman.

 

May I bring to your attention that FOS rules which are backed by the Consumer Credit Act 2006 require a business to acknowledge in writing a complaint by the end of the next working day.

 

To quote from the page 5 of the Financial Ombudsman Service rules (see link below)

 

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/introduction_consumercredit.pdf

"When handling complaints, your business should:

■ send the consumer a prompt written acknowledgment

(if you have not been able to resolve the complaint on the

spot, or by the end of the next working day);

 

It is requested you treat this as a formal complaint and provide me with a copy of your Complaints procedure.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

Quote

To Wescott

 

Dear Sirs,

 

I am in receipt of your letter dated (Whenever).

 

I would remind both you and Santander that this account is in dispute.

 

It is my understanding that where a genuine dispute is present, it is against OFT Debt Collection Guidelines for you to pursue and harrass me.

 

I imagine the mis selling of a PPI product would be classified as a genuine dispute. I am most certainly disputing that I owe any liability to your client, Santander.

 

Yours etc.

 

 

The DN is definitely invalid in that it only allows for "14 days". There should be a DATE. Interesting post on just that issue below...

 

 

Quote

IMPORTANT TO INCLUDE RE DEFAULT NOTICES

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-2708372.html

 

Posts 194 and 195 by Vint1954

 

 

“Within 14 days of the date of the default notice” as a date by which to remedy the alleged breach ” can never be compliant, even if the creditor were to serve the notice in person on the day that the notice was dated it would give the debtor only 13 clear days in which to remedy the alleged breach.

 

Thus, this particular Default Notice could never had been compliant in this respect. It was defective at the time it was produced.

 

The default notice gives “important details” to the debtor as to how to obtain legal advice, the clear days include weekends and bank holidays therefore the debtor is already restricted to the number of working days he has to work with/obtain legal advice, more or less depending upon which day the creditor posts the notice.

 

The regulations do not permit the creditor to reduce the amount of time given to the debtor in which to remedy and any such reduction in time, whether by accident or design cannot be considered as De Minimus

 

Parliament intended the creditor to be strictly bound to comply with the regulations in this respect.

 

It is averred that the act intended that the creditor should suffer the consequences of his failure to comply with his obligations in respect of default notices and that incompetence, laziness, or a total disregard of the regulations would offer no relief to the creditor..

 

 

 

 

[vint1954]

Hi gazab, got your PM.

 

CB has already advised on the need to claim PPI from OC, so follw CB's suggestion and advise wescot again of the situation and that the account is subject to missold PPI claim with OC.

[gazab41]

ok guys thanks for advice however have now recived the following termination letter was of the opinion account had been terminated orig by allience and l as they had issued default that was due to drop off this year any more advice as the previous default notice is incorrect from santander/wescott due to adress of creditor etc .

 

 

please help thanks all

TN.pdf

[vint1954]

If A&L issued a DN some years back and Santander purchaced the account, they cannot issue a new DN, but must update the original default with CRA's, unless the early DN was satisfied and the account endured.

 

Can you explain what happened a few years back. Did A&L issue a DN then terminate?

[citizenB]

gaza, you could copy the same letter that you are sending to Wescott to Santander.

 

You could also enclose a copy of the letter you will be sending to A & L so they know you are serious about reclaiming the money.

[stalin's dead]

as an aside and not hijacking the thread cos i have an ongoing dispute with the A & L at present. If the PPI is reclaimed and the agreement proves unenforceable does this mean the default notice is invalid or should i say unlawful?

 

gaza,

 

send 3 PPI letters (copied) to :

 

Chris Woollatt (Case Mgr, Group Customer Relations)

Steve Davis (Team Mgr, GCR's)

and Richard Harris (Head of Complaints Operations, GCR's)**

 

Alliance and Leicester

Customer Service Centre

Narborough

Leicester

LE19 0AL

 

** : main man in charge

 

take copies of everything!!

[gazab41]

ok just to add to the confusion I am suffering with this account have relised that A/L only defaulted account and never in fact terminated it so santander can not issue fresh default any one like to comment

[diddydicky]

have you taken Vint's advice and accepted their unlawful rescission?

 

i would

 

also in accepting an unlawful rescission- meaning that you relieve yourself of your obligations under the agreement due to their repudiation of their obligations thereby effectively ending the agreement

 

IMO you would then be in some difficulty in arguing about PPI premiums since you just acknowlegded that the agreement no longer endures

 

i dont personally think you can "have your cake and eat it"

[vint1954]

Fully agree DD. Its an either or situation. Best to deal with the UR first.

 

Gazab,

 

Did you send the letter?

 

You can use the one from your BC thread.

[gazab41]

just to add to the confusion received a letter today from Alliance and Leicester stating that alliance and Leicester accounts do not go to Santander until 28 may 2010.

 

it states that that allience and liecester has been part of santander group since 2008,

however it also states that Abbey national plc became part of the Santander group in 2004 and

 

in 2008 alliance and Leicester and the Bradford and bingley savings businesses and branches became part of the Santander operation.

so at the moment according my my calculations santander can not demand loan payments will post letter latter any help please

[gazab41]

ok have now recived the following acount still in dispute re earlier letter to wescot have not as yet sent UR letter as as far as im aware this ac still belongs to allience and liecester new acount number not the same as was orig and dodgy default issued when one had been isueed years earlier what now please.

 

rockwell 13-05-2010.pdf

[dx100uk]

std threat-o-gram

ignore

 

dx

[gazab41]

eok I recived a number of documents from Santander  these were received during 1/2 term week ending friday 4th June.

 

The First one being a loan summary sheet dated Feb 2010 showing a loan amount of £11,084.85

the orig loan with A/L was for £9400 plus PPI charges.

 

PPi missold as was never able to claim as was contract worker supply teacher.

 

there are a number of issues with this summary sheet also as the loan was 60 months taken out in 2001 and on the summery sheet shows 2 months left to run.

 

Also this shows i owe £0.00 am being hassled by rockwell

[diddydicky]

if they have not sent you a true copy of an executed agreement and instead rely upon summary or account sheets i would reply something along the lines of

 

 

dear sirs

 

thank you for your letter of xxxxxxxx containing some summary sheets

 

I have at no time disputed that an agreement was entered into with you (your client) therefore sending me proof of what i dont deny is irrelevant

 

What i wish to see is evidence that the agreement was legally enforceable (before you unlawfully terminated it) and my request can best be satisfied by providing me with a true copy of a properly executed and/or legally enforceable credit agreement

 

 

Y F

[gazab41]

I received a number of documents from Santander the these were recived durring 1/2 term week ending friday 4th June.

 

The First one being a loan summary sheet dated Feb 2010 showing a loan amount of £11,084.85 the orig loan with A/L was for £9400 plus PPI charges.

 

PPi missold as was never able to claim as was contract worker supply teacher.

 

there are a number of issues with this summary sheet also as the loan was 60 months taken out in 2001 and on the summery sheet shows 2 months left to run.

 

I have had 2 sets of these docs one dated feb 2010 and the other April 2010

 

please note mistakes states loan still has 2 months to run orig 60 month loan from 2001 also states i owe nothing which i happy accept would of liked ppi (missold back but it does it matter) I know I have paid back £10'002.60 all data sent from A/L sanantder in following posts

 

I then had the following threat from Rockwell DCA on 7th june

I then got the next one on sat 19th June Please advise on letter to send this company please.

ok here is the loan account statment dated feb 2010

docs2.pdf

[dx100uk]

stuff 'em

get that ppi reclaimed

 

you paid 35.77 ppi from the date of your first payment

 

knock up a spreadsheet.

 

if you give me the 1st date of payment and last date i'll do it for you.

 

dx

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi Gaza,

You're in great hands here with DX, DD and Vint. Lets see how the PPI owed stacks up.

Re the DN..Technically, if you accept the repudiatory breach then both parties are relieved of their obligations under the agreement so if it was me I'd get the figures first to see which is the best way to go.

Elsa x

[diddydicky]

theres a good article in wednesdays mail with regard to the OFT getting annoyed with lenders rebutting PPi claims and making them unnecessary work

 

concludes with the fact that within the next couple of months OFT are going to lay down stricter guidelines for the creditors to deal with- and not reject the PPI claims out of hand

 

apparently i think they said over 90% of referrals to them go the way of the debtor

[Undercover-Elsa]

Excellent news!! About time too.

Maybe they're getting antsy and suddenly realising they'd better actually start enforcing Fair Trading now the spotlight is on their upper management salaries

[dx100uk]

here's the info

 

hi as you correctly stated about how much I had paid A/L paid the £35.77 between march 2001 and Feb 04 total of 35 months

 

I then paid agreed payment plan of £20 between Nov 04 - 2 payment in nov then Dec 04

 

£20 paid between feb 05 -Apr 07 every month

 

May07 and june07 £40 p month then £10 july and Aug

 

Sept 07- Feb 08 £40 pm

 

March - may08 £50 pm

 

june 08 - £10

 

july 08 - oct 08 £50 pm

 

NOv 08 - jan £10 pm

 

feb 09 - jul 09 £50 pm

 

Aug 09 £10

 

sept 09 £25

 

oct and nov £50 pm

 

that is what i paid a/l intotal

 

amount = £10,002.60 paid in total

 

orig default notice issue by a/l due to run out oct 10

 

any help with spreed sheet would be great thanks

 

if anyone wants to have a stab

i'm tied for a few days.

 

dx

[gazab41]

Ok guys advise needed again on this

 

received a few letters at my previous address from Moorcroft re Santander who took over allience and liecester

 

last one threatened a visit to the property owned by girlfriend,

 

of which I moved out of last year when we had a blip in our relationship.

 

Today I recived the following letter.

 

At new address

 

It reads thus

 

Dear Mr

 

We are agents of Santander(uk) plc

 

Their records show that the above account has an outstanding balance.

 

They have therefore asked us to contact the account holder to discus the account and we have been provided this address by a credit reference agency

that supply us with address links based on information they hold.

 

Please contact us to confirm the position and so that we can make appropriate arrangement

 

However if you believe that you are not the person responsible for the account it is important that you contact us immediately either by telephone or letter.

Thank you for your cooperation in this mater.

 

The only thing on letter is a 12 digit morcroft ref followed by in brackets one letter a dash followed by 2 letters and 3 numbers.

 

If you look back to 2010 Santander sent stat of account showing I owed nothing

 

payment protection was also applied on this account which I was miss sold

 

thanks

 

if some one could advise be great full thanks.