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    • Thank you for that "read me", It's a lot to digest, lots of legal procedure. There was one thing that I was going to mention to you,  but in one of the conversations in that thread it was mentioned that there may be spies on the Forum,  this is something that I've read quite some time ago in a previous thread. What I had in mind was to wait for the thirty days after their reply to my CCA request and then send the unenforceable letter. I was hoping that an absence of signature could be the Silver Bullet but it seems that there are lot of layers to peel on this Onion.  
    • love the extra £1000 charge for confidentialy there BF   Also OP even if they don't offer OOC it doesn't mean your claim isn't good. I had 3 against EVRi that were heard over the last 3 weeks. They sent me emails asking me to discontinue as I wouldn't win. Went infront of a judge and won all 3.    Just remember the law is on your side. The judges will be aware of this.   Where you can its important to try to point out at the hearing the specific part of the contract they breached. I found this was very helpful and the Judge made reference to it when they gave their judgements and it seemed this was pretty important as once you have identified a specific breach the matter turns straight to liability. From there its a case of pointing out the unlawfullness of their insurance and then that should be it.
    • I know dx and thanks again for yours and others help. I was 99.999% certain last payment was over six years ago if not longer.  👍
    • Paragraph 23 – "standard industry practice" – put this in bold type. They are stupid to rely on this and we might as well carry on emphasising how stupid they are. I wonder why they could even have begun to think some kind of compelling argument – "the other boys do it so I do it as well…" Same with paragraph 26   Paragraph 45 – The Defendants have so far been unable to produce any judgements at any level which disagree with the three judgements…  …court, but I would respectfully request…   Just the few amendments above – and I think it's fine. I think you should stick to the format that you are using. This has been used lots of times and has even been applauded by judges for being meticulous and clear. You aren't a professional. Nobody is expecting professional standards and although it's important that you understand exactly what you are doing – you don't really want to come over to the judge that you have done this kind of thing before. As a litigant in person you get a certain licence/leeway from judges and that is helpful to you – especially if you are facing a professional advocate. The way this is laid out is far clearer than the mess that you will get from EVRi. Quite frankly they undermine their own credibility by trying to say that they should win simply because it is "standard industry practice". It wouldn't at all surprise me if EVRi make you a last moment offer of the entire value of your claim partly to avoid judgement and also partly to avoid the embarrassment of having this kind of rubbish exposed in court. If they do happen to do that, then you should make sure that they pay everything. If they suddenly make you an out-of-court offer and this means that they are worried that they are going to lose and so you must make sure that you get every penny – interest, costs – everything you claimed. Finally, if they do make you an out-of-court offer they will try to sign you up to a confidentiality agreement. The answer to that is absolutely – No. It's not part of the claim and if they want to settle then they settle the claim as it stands and don't try add anything on. If they want confidentiality then that will cost an extra £1000. If they don't like it then they can go do the other thing. Once you have made the amendments suggested above – it should be the final version. court,. I don't think we are going to make any more changes. Your next job good to make sure that you are completely familiar with it all. That you understand the arguments. Have you made a court familiarisation visit?
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UKCPS Parked Outside Marked Bay KIRKBY main car park - free 3 hours max


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The keeper has received a letter to keeper about not parking in a marked bay by UKCPS.

 

How does the keeper fight this.

 

Managed to covert the letter and here it is ...

 

 

For completion this was manual NPR not ANPR so ...

 

 

please answer the following questions.

 

1 Date of the infringement 12/08/2019

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 14/08/2019

 

3 Date received 15/08/2019

 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] Dont think so

 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Inconclusive

 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal]

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up No action taken yet

 

7 Who is the parking company? UKCPS

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] KIRKBY main car park - free 3 hours max

 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. IAS

 

UKCPS Parked in Unmarked Bay.pdf

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  • dx100uk changed the title to UKCPS Parked Outside Marked Bay KIRKBY main car park - free 3 hours max

now how is anyone supposed to amke sense of what they are saying, they say parked outside of marked bay in Kirkby but as they didnt slap a ticket on the car i would say that they have failed to properly identify the land they manage as Kirkby with a population of 40,000. Does that mean they have signed a contract with everyone there or have they just screwed up? ( we know, we know)

 

The photographic evidence is garbage and that is another POFA fail.

The amount  outstanding on the invoice is stated as £60 but later on they say that they want £100 so that presumes that someone has already paid the difference of it can never be owed. Another POFA (and accounting) fail.

 

What would be useful is pictures of the entrance to the site from the public highway and of any signs there plus any different signs around the site. If thereis no sign at the entrance then we want a picture showing that as evidence you werent offered any contract and that is relevant because of where you parked.

 

As they are IPC members there is no point at all in appealing so get your pictures as soon as possible so you can bash them when the time comes. In the meanwhile ignore any letters they or their tame DCA's send other than a proper letter before action and that will be from Gladstones solicitors who coincidentally are also the IPC  so dont splutter in your cornflakes about this conflict of interest

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 we want pictures of the lack of signage as well as close ups of the signs. When I say close ups I need to be able to read the small print on the IPC  logo because there are 2 IPC's the International Parking Community and the Independent Parking Committee.

The latter is a spoof by someone who registered the name under the noses of Will and John of Gladstones who are also the IPC and forced them to change thier name to the former from the latter.

If the sign logo reads independent paking committee then the sign breaks the law and no contrcat can be formed and the parking co cant legaly apply for your keeper details.

This small point may be enough to get them to drop their claim later on as Will and John will be too embarrassed to continue when they have publicly stated they will sue any using the old name in relationship to their activity

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MSE suggests the following response regardless of alleged contravention ..

 


Re PCN number: 

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a formal complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner and to my MP.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require ALL photos taken and an explanation of the allegation and your evidence, i.e.:

- If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it. 

- If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner. If you fail to evidence the actual grace period that applies at this site or suggest that only one period applies, this will be disregarded as an attempt to mislead. In the absence of evidence, it will be reasonably taken to be a minimum of twenty minutes (ten on arrival and ten after parking time) in accordance with the official BPA article by Kelvin Reynolds about 'observation periods' on arrival being additional and separate to a 'grace period' at the end.

- in all cases, you must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date.

Formal note:
Should you later pursue this charge by way of litigation, note that service of any legal documents by email is expressly disallowed and you are not entitled to assume that the data in this dispute/appeal remains the current address for service in the future.

Yours faithfully,

 

Photo on letter proves nothing

 

https://imgur.com/gallery/Ye8VTe1

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no we don't adhere to that advice neither the court defences they use.

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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not really, just correct and incorrect way to address things

each to its own.

but its not a good idea to ever crack a walnut with a sledge hammer when you wantto actually eat the nut inside.

 

CAG and parking prankster are worthy reads esp prankster site

there you'll get the truth...

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Appealing usually ends up with the dirver being identified and the protection of POFA is lost.

We could do with some help from you.

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No that doesn't but often if someone does their own appeal, they do usually before they have looked anywhere for advice.

We could do with some help from you.

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regarding report

location is fine.

not to worry.

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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This Seems better, even if ignored because it tries to address the issue ...


Re PCN number: 

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a formal complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner and to my MP.

 

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require ALL photos taken and an explanation of the allegation and your evidence, i.e.:

 

- As the allegation is regarding being parked outside of a marked bay i require proof, including all photographs taken. The picture in the letter does not show anything apart from the front of my vehicle and the shadow of the person taking the photo.

 

- photographs showing how long the vehicle was parked in alleged contravention as there is a grace period to read the signs and move if required.

 

- you must also include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date.

 

- the driver denies the alleged contravention

 

Formal note:
Should you later pursue this charge by way of litigation, note that service of any legal documents by email is expressly disallowed and you are not entitled to assume that the data in this dispute/appeal remains the current address for service in the future.

Yours faithfully,

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Someone has been very friendly on facebook and provided the following ...

 

MY Name

My address
Xxxxxxxxxxx

Today’s date xxxxx

PCN number: xxxxxxx 


Dear Sir / Madam, 

I am in receipt of a Notice To Keeper in relation to vehicle registration number XXXXX

 

This debt is denied.

 

I am the keeper of the above vehicle but am under no obligation to identify the driver as you have failed to comply with a number of criteria outlined in  Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 as outlined below. : 

 

1. No period of parking shown or provided. 


2. No evidence to support your claim that a breach of terms and conditions occured.


3.  " KIRKBY" is not "relevant land"  and could in fact be anywhere
( as paragraph 9, 2 (a)

 

Notice To Keeper states that this alleged debt remains unpaid. Please explain how it remains unpaid when this is the first and only corrospendence recived?

 

This wording suggests a NTD was affixed to the vehicle, if this was the case then the Notice To Keeper has been sent before 28 days so you have failed to comply with PoFa by obtaining keeper details before 28 days.  I will be sending DVLA a SAR to clarify this to find out when keeper details were requested. 

 

If this PCN is not cancelled then please be aware I will not enter into any further correspondence with yourselves or your appointed debt collection agency.  

 

Should you still pursue this matter then provide an unredacted copy of the contract between yourselves and the landowner showing proof of your jurisdiction to issue parking charges in this area.

 

Please cancel this and do not contact me again other than to confirm this has been cancelled. Any further correspondence from you will be considered harassment and will be reported to the appropriate authority. 


Yours faithfully, 


Registered keeper 
[Xxxxxx name]

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Date of infringement 12/08/19

 

They have 14 days to get a compliant NTK to you if no ticket attached to vehicle. Send that appeal now and they just correct their NTK (with a mental "thanks for the heads up") and send you a compliant one.

 

Less is usually more - keep your powder dry.

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nice friend...NOT!!

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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1 hour ago, Mrs O'Frog said:

Date of infringement 12/08/19

 

They have 14 days to get a compliant NTK to you if no ticket attached to vehicle. Send that appeal now and they just correct their NTK (with a mental "thanks for the heads up") and send you a compliant one.

 

Less is usually more - keep your powder dry.

 

So when best to send it then?

 

surely they cannot reissue if they mess up?

Edited by CofiwchDryweryn
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Mrs 'O Frog has put it as plainly as possible. An appeal is useless they are members of the IPC, Gladstones in another frock, you willl lose your appeal. Again it's your choice but we would advise not appealing.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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