Jump to content


spinningfish

Jaguar Won't Take Responsibility for Design Fault

Recommended Posts

In February this year, I purchased my third Jaguar car, a beautiful 63 plate XF S Sportbrake and until recently had been very happy.

 

Unfortunately, that happiness was not destined to last. Just over a week ago, I was using the washers to clean my windscreen and at the same time realised that my right foot was absolutely soaked. At that point, I had every imaginable error come up on the dashboard. Luckily, I was able to get the  car home, but it was rather an anxious trip as I had my then twelve-week-old baby and three-year-old daughter on board.

I contacted my local Jaguar dealership and was advised that it was actually a rather common fault, but to get it fixed would be a rather astronomical amount circa £1,700! The reason being that the Central Junction Box would require replacement and reprogramming. Basically, the seal on the windscreen washer pump failed, which meant that every time you cleaned the screen, the pump would pump water up the wires and into the main junction box that controls everything electrical. It happens over a period of time and rots the PCB.

I researched this further on the internet and discovered that rather than it being a ‘common fault’, it is actually a design flaw recognised by Jaguar as per the following Technical Bulletin, and with an updated Washer Pump, and other components, to stop it pumping water into the CJB:

2015 Jaguar Xf Electrical System Service Bulletin 383450

Action Number: 10057687

Service Bulletin Number: 383450 Report Date: Jan 05, 2015

Component: Electrical System

Summary: Jaguar: fluid has ingressed through front end wiring harness and washer pump causing multiple warning lights, in instrument cluster, to illuminate. Model 2012-15 xf (x250). *pe

 

In addition to the above, a simple search on Google of ‘Jaguar XF Central Junction Box’ reveals several other customers who have suffered exactly the same fault, to the point that it seems inevitable that it will happen to all owners of the XF up to 2015.

In light of the above, I find it galling that Jaguar refuses to take responsibility and continues to charge it’s customers a phenomenal amount to fix a design flaw – a design flaw that Jaguar recognise is there by releasing a technical bulletin and updating the faulty components in order for it not to happen again.

My prized Jaguar is now sat outside. It doesn’t even start anymore due to the numerous faults that light up the dashboard due to the aforementioned fault and as our only family car, I can’t even get to the local shop for groceries.

 

Surely, by releasing a technical bulletin and updating the faulty components, they are in essence admitting liability?

You help is very much appreciated!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Was it purchased from Jaguar or other dealership ?  63 plate is that 2013 ?

 

Andy


We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To my understanding when they issue a bulletin,  they make sure all service centres are advised of it and of any fix.

It's just short of a recall where they contact the customer directly. 

So they rely on the customer to take the car to be serviced to an authorised dealer.

Was your car serviced at authorised dealer?

If so, call them and tell them about the bulletin. 

Record the call.

IMO this is clearly a design fault and Jaguar should issue a recall to all cars affected.

You could also write to jaguar CEO and see what happens. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What date in February did you take delivery of the vehicle?

 

Also, how did you pay?


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry for the slow reply. So the car was purchased from a general dealership and collected on February 16th 2019.

 

It was paid partly on credit card and the rest on finance.

 

Yes it's a 2013 car.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What about service history?

Any? Full? Jaguar garage or general?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You are very lucky. You are just within the 6 months envisage by the Consumer rights act.

you must send them an email immediately and followed up with a recorded delivery letter sent guaranteed next day delivery informing them that you are invoking your right to reject the vehicle under the Consumer rights act unless they repair the fault. Inform them that if the fault is not repaired or if the repair fails that you will then assert your rights to reject the vehicle for a full refund plus any associated expenses.

 

You must do this now

 

please will you confirm that you have seen this post and also I suggest that you engage with us read closely rather than allow delays to occur. It could be to your prejudice.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you, BankFodder!

 

Am I to assume that this is with the dealer I purchased it from?

 

It has full Jaguar Service History, by the way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Full Jaguar service history and that bulletin should be enough for Jaguar to do the work free of charge as "a gesture of goodwill" (their favourite words when they don't want to admit they've screwed up).

So follow BF advice before your 6 months are up, but at the same time I would engage with Jaguar directly.

Before you do that, read the customer service guide on this website and save the bulletin and the page where you found it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks guys! Very much appreciate your help!!

Will keep everyone in the loop

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes. Whoever sold you the car gets the letter.

Send the letter urgently. We'll sort out the details later.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What did you pay for the car?


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, so two things have happened today.

Firstly, email to dealer sent, with associated letter going out Special Delivery this morning.

Secondly, I sent an email to the CEO of Jaguar yesterday evening, basically stating that if they have released a technical bulletin, plus have upgraded the components to ensure it doesn't happen again, then they recognise it is a design flaw and should fix it FOC.

They called this morning and have emailed. The response:

 

Dear Mr Fish

 

Thank you for your time on the telephone to discuss your letter addressed to Sir Ralf dated yesterday 13th August 2019, in relation to the water leak and associated electrical concerns with your Jaguar XF Sportbrake.

 

Given my responsibilities within the Executive Office, I have been appointed as your direct contact and will be in communication in reference to the concerns with your vehicle. Please allow me to apologise for the frustration and disappointment faced with your vehicle. I would also like to reassure you that both Sir Ralf and the Board of Directors will be kept fully updated on any progress on your complaint.

 

As advised, in the first instance I would recommend speaking to the private dealer to whom you purchased the vehicle to see if they would offer goodwill in this instance. Should you present your vehicle to your preferred Jaguar Land Rover Approved Retailer, Grange Jaguar, Hatfield, you would be liable for the transportation and diagnosis. Once the root cause has been identified, I would request you contact me further to allow me to liaise with the Aftersales Manager for a financial gesture to be considered.

 

On behalf of Jaguar Land Rover I would review the goodwill policy which allows us the opportunity to support financially towards vehicle repairs on vehicles that have recently come out of their manufacturer's warranty period. Consideration would be given to a number of aspects when reviewing what support we are able to offer which includes the age, mileage, concern and further history.

 

Should you wish to discuss this further or have any other concerns, please do not hesitate to contact me on my details below.

 

Yours sincerely,

Jag

 

So, apart from the fact they want me to get the car there myself (it doesn't start/drive) and they want to pay for the initial diagnosis, what do we think is implied? A FOC repair?

Thanks in advance, again.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In my opinion that letter is very good news.

Now the most important thing is to film the problem so to have a record of the fault.

Then take the car to the dealer as suggested in the letter.

Depending on how far you are from the dealer, a flatbed shouldn't cost too much, usually around £100 if within 25 miles.

Some companies do it for cheaper.

In any case, do as BF suggested so you stop the clock within the 6 months mark, just in case Jaguar won't fix it.

That bulletin is truly gold dust and if the problem is as described,  Jaguar will definitely pay.

Maybe they will try to charge you half, that would be a sign that they should pay entirely for the repairs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The letter is ok but there is too much reference to goodwill.

it has nothing to do with goodwill it has to do with their contractual obligations towards you and the rest of it is nonsense.

it is clear that you should not have to pay for the recovery of the vehicle and that should be your absolutely starting point and a red line. You paragraph i will have better access later and i will give a fuller response then

 

however, you have to be extremely hard-nosed about this. They have mucked you around and they are obliged to do far more than that and start accepting responsibility instead of simply doing you favours.

 

 

 

 


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank BankFodder. It would be great to have a response to hit back at them with.

 

Also, thanks to you King for all your help.

 

I love this forum!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bankfodder, you can't expect Jaguar to recover the car without knowing what's wrong with it.

As far as they're concerned it could be something completely unrelated to that bulletin.

I'm sure you heard about good car owners using a hose to wash interiors, that's why I suggested to take the car to them.

The recovery fee can be reclaimed later.

Let them have the car and confirm the fault.

Then if they want to call the repair a gesture of goodwill,  let them; end of the day you want your car fixed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, king12345 said:

Bankfodder, you can't expect Jaguar to recover the car without knowing what's wrong with it.

As far as they're concerned it could be something completely unrelated to that bulletin.

I'm sure you heard about good car owners using a hose to wash interiors, that's why I suggested to take the car to them.

The recovery fee can be reclaimed later.

Let them have the car and confirm the fault.

Then if they want to call the repair a gesture of goodwill,  let them; end of the day you want your car fixed.

 

I'm sorry but I think you are completely out of tune with this forum. This forum is a campaigning forum. We are concerned with helping individuals to get solutions also we are in helping to produce a different kind of consumer culture so that people have expectations and intend that those reasonable expectations should be fulfilled.

I'm afraid I find that your approach is verging on the supine and I'm far more into the business of ripping off heads whenever I can. That's why this forum was started and I think we are doing a fairly good job.

The bulletin is certainly important – but it is important to the extent that it is good evidence that there is a fault in the car and which had always existed. It has nothing to do with the fact that the car has broken down and that it is not of satisfactory quality. The legislation – and frankly that's what counts – requires that the car is of satisfactory quality and remains that way for a reasonable period of time.

If you are really happy that you would be prepared to pay £12,000 for a vehicle which breaks down within six months and that you are then required to pay almost £2000 to get the car back on the road. If you really feel that that is satisfactory quality and you would be satisfied if that happened to you then I don't see that you have any place here.

It is perfectly possible to get this vehicle fixed without having to be made to feel that you are being done some kind of favour for which you should be grateful. It is perfectly possible to get this vehicle fixed and at the same time make it clear to the seller of the vehicle that this is the way things are and that they are obliged to this because of their obligations under present consumer legislation and that to fail to do this is essentially unlawful.





 


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now in terms of the situation of the OP.

I understand that you have now been without the use of this vehicle for over a week. That they admit that there is a design fault and that what appears to have happened with your vehicle is typical of that fault. This effectively means that they acknowledge that the fault does exist and the only area of disputes is that they seem not to acknowledge that it is their responsibility. They are the resellers of the vehicle and of course there completely wrong. If there is an inherent design fault then that is a problem between the reseller and whoever they bought the car from – and maybe that is Jaguar but it is certainly not the responsibility of the OP – he purchased in good faith.

The clear responsibility of the reseller is to repair the problem as quickly as possible and to minimise the inconvenience to the purchaser as far as possible. It seems clear that not only is the seller unwilling to do this but they also trying to pass the buck onto Jaguar and Jaguar in their own turn are trying to pass the buck back to the reseller on the basis that may be the reseller can be persuaded to carry out some remedial work as a gesture of goodwill.

Sorry but this kind of stuff amounts to bullying and it makes my blood boil. There are a huge number of consumers who would not know their rights and might well accept this because they effectively repose their trust in the reseller. This is an outrageous con and it should actually be a criminal matter because it amounts to obtaining a pecuniary advantage by deception.
If anyone is not sure this then to explain it very simply, you have here a reseller who has sold the vehicle which has broken down. The reseller should absolutely be aware of the rights of the consumer and yet is attempting to deprive the consumer of those rights by offering to carry out the repair for about £1700. At the very least this is reckless and that the worst it is thoroughly dishonest.

Even if we were beyond the six months, the purchaser would still have all of their rights under the contract and would be entitled to sue for the cost of the repairs. As it is they are within the six months and this gives them an additional right to return the vehicle is a successful repair is not carried out. It may well be that the OP prefers to hang onto the vehicle if it is repaired. There is no need to enforce the right to reject the vehicle that at least by sending the letter within the six months, the OP has reserved that right.

The way forward is up to the OP. You can get into an exchange of letters and start pleading for the work to be done. You might eventually end up with a gesture of goodwill or maybe they will agree to carry out the work simply for the cost of the parts and you will have to pay for the labour – or some other kind of halfway agreement.

On the other hand you can cut to the chase and simply issue them with a letter of claim giving them 14 days and then presumably you know what comes after that. It's up to you to decide how you want to go – how assertive you want to be. It seems to me that you are dealing here with a reseller that needs a lesson in consumer rights.

By the way I may have missed it but I don't notice anywhere that you have told us the name of the retailer. Are you trying to protect them?


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi BankFodder

I very much admire, and share, your passion for the 'little guy'!

Just to clarify the timeline, and add the requested information, so there is no confusion:

On February 16th 2019, I purchased the car from a general car dealer - GCS Cars in Thrapston. Paid partly by credit card, with the remainder on finance.

Around ten days ago, the problem manifested itself and now the car does not drive. According to Google, it is a well-known and common fault, one that is known by Jaguar themselves as they have issued their dealerships with a Technical Bulletin and also designed new parts to repair the problem and have updated the troublesome windscreen pump to ensure that water does not seep into the Central Junction Box over time and corrode the Printed Circuit Board, which causes the total failure of the car.

On the advice above, I emailed GCS Cars this morning to invoke my rights under the CRA, and have also sent the same letter by Special Delivery to arrive tomorrow. Also, on advice from above I have emailed the Jaguar CEO, as ultimately they know there's a fault, but do not take any responsibility for it.

Jaguar are the only people to respond, asking that in the first instance, I try to contact the dealer I bought the car from (GCS), and if the response from them is unsatisfactory I can, at my cost, send the car to my local Jaguar dealership who will diagnose (again at my cost) and then potentially fix it for nothing (that's how I perceive it) as a 'gesture of goodwill'.

I hope that clarifies things! Apologies if I was vague above.

Edited by spinningfish

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is this the company - https://www.gcscarsalesltd.co.uk/ ?


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe I have missed something but you don't appear to have written to GCS about this problem at all – until today's letter. Is that correct?


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, BankFodder said:

Maybe I have missed something that you don't appear to have written to GCS about this problem at all – until today's letter. Is that correct?

Yes, that's correct.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...