Notice given but need to pay back Annual Leave, or work it off

[Staara77]

Hello all,

 

I wrote to my employer around a week ago to hand in my one months notice.

They were fine but here is where issues arise:

 

I reduced my hours from 28 to 18 in June, they've overpaid me, and want me to pay it back-by the 6th of September, this is when my notice period ends. 

I've paid them half, and they'll deduct the rest from my final pay.

 

I was only told on Friday the 9th of August that I owe them 44 hours of annual leave, as since April 2019 I had  an entitlement of 123 hours of annual leave,

out of which I've used up 95 hours, but as I'm leaving in September instead of March 2020, my annual leave has been reduced, so I've overtaken annual leave, and it needs to be paid back.

 

I do shift work, and due to what is available, I will have to work up to six days a week, and every weekend, I've already worked the past two weekends, and have to work the next few until 6th September.

 

I'm wondering if there is anyway I can come up with an agreement to repay, where I pay them back AFTER I leave the employment.

I'm asking because I cannot afford to pay all of the money owed, or if I do, it will be a very big struggle, and too much for me.

 

Here is the part from the contract about holiday payment:

 

Quote

'Upon termination of your employment you will be entitled to pay in lieu of any unused holiday entitlement. You will be required to repay to the Employer pay received for holiday taken in excess of your entitlement. Any sums so due may be deducted from any money owing to you. The Employer reserves the right to require you to take any unused holiday entitlement during your notice period, even if booked to be taken after the end of the notice period'

 

Is there any hope-of partial payments after I leave, or will I have to work a lot, or pay back money I cannot afford at the moment.

 

I know some will say that I should have thought about this a few months before, but I wasn't aware that a suitable job would turn up like this.

 

Thanks for reading this, and please let me know if you need any more clarification.

 

 

[fkofilee]

Can you start earlier at your new place? 

[Staara77]

1 hour ago, fkofilee said:

Can you start earlier at your new place? 

 

I'm not too sure, the company I want to work for are still waiting for one of my references-I have gotten my DBS, and all my other documents are fine. 

 

But if I leave earlier would the current company not make a big deal out of it?

 

The other issue is that my partner works for the same company, and if I leave early, they probably would ask him questions about what I'm doing, where I am etc.

 

 

[fkofilee]

15 minutes ago, Staara77 said:

 

I'm not too sure, the company I want to work for are still waiting for one of my references-I have gotten my DBS, and all my other documents are fine. 

 

But if I leave earlier would the current company not make a big deal out of it?

 

The other issue is that my partner works for the same company, and if I leave early, they probably would ask him questions about what I'm doing, where I am etc.

 

 

 

Ask them and explain the situation - They may beable to bring it forward  

Your partner can politely decline the questions. They cant hold them accountable for your decisions

[Staara77]

16 minutes ago, fkofilee said:

 

Ask them and explain the situation - They may beable to bring it forward  

Your partner can politely decline the questions. They cant hold them accountable for your decisions

Thanks fkofilee,

 

Did you mean ask the new company to bring the start of employment date forward?

 

But just in case things don't go to plan, can I ask the current company to pay back after I leave?

 

I don't trust the current company a single bit, they've gone downhill in the past 2-3 years, high staff turnover, difficulty retaining staff etc.

[fkofilee]

I did They may be more keen to get you onboard

Immediate starters are always great to have. 

 

You can ask but will probably deduct. 

Can you take the hit and will you new Salary cover it after so many months? 

 

 

[Staara77]

23 hours ago, fkofilee said:

I did They may be more keen to get you onboard

Immediate starters are always great to have. 

 

You can ask but will probably deduct. 

Can you take the hit and will you new Salary cover it after so many months? 

 

 

 

The thing is I'll still owe my current company the annual leave etc, and I don't think I'd get any of the hours I've worked back in my final pay, as they'll take it all off, plus I'll still owe them.

 

Is there nothing I can do regarding the current company?

If I leave early I'll lose a lot of money, which is where the problem lies.

[fkofilee]

Right but how long till you join your new company? If they bring it forward and you go after your next payday (IE upto 6 weeks) - Will it protect you from losing so much money. 

Its the only way I can see this really going to plan so you keep your money, start at the new company with minimal deductions and can arrange repayment without them taking a hefty chunk of your Salary.

 

Either way - I cant think of anything else... 

[Emmzzi]

If the new place is Mon - Fri, ask old place if you can extend you end date and do weekends.

 

Either way, they are having the money or the hours off you!

[ericsbrother]

Have you tried asking them if they will accept you paying back the rermainder over a short period after you leave their employment?. they know where you are off to so you arent doing a runner.

it is normal to have it written into contracts that all things like season ticket loans etc are repaid upon leaving the company but again where peopel still travel between the same stations as before it is not unheard of for the (ex)employer to agree to a direct debit payment on the same terms as before to collect the money rather than you having to cash in the season ticket and buy another one (or single tickets!)

 

Now to my mind the changes in hours and thus annual leave entitlement is a bit of a special circumstance if you changed your hours after taking the holiday so they should be more amenable to listening to offers. There is an advantage for teh employera s well, if they are owed more than your final salary payment they cant collect the balance so an arrangement wil allow them to get all of what is owed without risking the money they want being estopped

[Staara77]

I've looked at their terms of notice under the contract that I signed, I find the wording a little confusing:

Quote

 

12.3: The employer reserves the right to pay you a sum in lieu of notice, equal to your basic salary (as at the date of termination), which you would have been entitled to receive, during the notice period referred to at clause 13.1 (or if notice has already been given, during the remainder of the notice period), less income tax and National Insurance contributions.

For the avoidance of doubt, the payment in lieu shall not include any bonus or commission payments, or any payment in respect of benefits, or holiday that might otherwise have accrued, or been due during the period for which payment in lieu is made.

 

12.6:  Nothing in these terms and conditions of employment shall prevent the employer from terminating your employment without notice or pay in lieu of notice in appropriate circumstances.

 

 

1) There is no clause 13.1 anywhere on the contract. 

2) I left out 12.4-12.5 because they cover garden leave and the employer making you take annual leave-if it's left.

 

I've e-mail Payroll and have asked them for a repayment plan, so shall have to wait and see what happens.

 

 

[ericsbrother]

why were your hours reduced? at your request , by mutual agreeemtn or at their voilition?

[Staara77]

On 15/08/2019 at 15:39, ericsbrother said:

why were your hours reduced? at your request , by mutual agreeemtn or at their voilition?

 

I asked for my hours to be reduced and the manager and his manager were fine with this.

[ericsbrother]

then estoppel doesnt come into play. Have you asked about  makiing an arrangement to repay what has been overpaid after you leave? no harm in doing so