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    • ok looks like that's what you need to do. but keep it bare bones for now as post 5  
    • stuff and all if there no signed agreement in the return   dx  
    • 1st again why do you keep changing things before you send them   you've added counterclaim in to our std CPR 31:14 you sent? why? this opens you up to additional costs and I hope you didnt tick counterclaim when you did AOS on mcol too?   also I notice you've  played with our std OD defence above too...   pers I would refrain from continuing to change things as they are written in the frain they are for specific reasons.   your defence is due by 4pm Monday [day 33]   here are 2 versions you will ofcourse need to adapt them to lowells para no's and remove the NOA stuff as your docs show Lowell have complied with those. but don't forget to mention other documents provided to date notably statements contain no proof they came from Lloyds but rather Lowells own internal data system    dx   1. It is admitted with regards to the Defendant entering into an Agreement referred to in the Particulars of Claim ('the Agreement') with the [insert original creditor] . .  2. The defendant denies that the account exceeded the agreed overdraft limit due to overdrawing of funds but is as a result of unfair and extortionate bank charges/penalties being applied to the account. .  3. I refute the claimants claim is owed or payable. The amount claimed is comprised of amongst others default penalties/charges levied on the account for alleged late, missed or over limit payments. The court will be aware that these charge types and the recoverability thereof have been judicially declared to be susceptible to assessments of fairness under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 The Office of Fair Trading v Abbey National PLC and others (2009). I will contend at trial that such charges are unfair in their entirety. .  4. It is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer crediticon Act 1974. The Claimant has yet to provide a copy of the Notice of Assignment its claim relies upon. .  5. The claimant is denied from added section 69 interest within the total claimed that as yet to be decided at the courts discretion. .  6. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed. .  The claimant is also put to strict proof to:-. .  (a) Provide a copy agreement/facility arrangement along with the Terms and conditions at inception, that this claim is based on.  (b) Provide a copy of the Notice served under 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974 Demand /Recall Notice and Notice of Assignment.  (c) Provide a breakdown of their excessive charging/fees levied to the account with justification.  (d) Show how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed.  (e) Show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.  (f) Show how they have complied with sections III & IV of Practice Direction - Pre-action Conduct. .  7. On receipt of this claim I requested documentation by way of a CPR 31.14 request dated [xxxxxxx] namely the Agreement and Termination Demand Notice referred to in the claimants Particulars of Claim. The Claimant has failed to comply with this request. .  By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief. .  .............. or  Particulars of Claim  1.The claim is for the sum of 2470.56 in respect of monies owing pursuant to an overdraft facility under account number XXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX.  2.The debt was legally assigned by Santander UK Plc to the claimant and notice has been served.   3.The Defendant has failed to repay overdrawn sums owing under the terms and conditions of the bank account.   The Claimant claims:  The sum of 2470.56 Interest pursuant to s69 of the county courticon Act 1984 at a rate of 8.00 percent from the 7/04/2015 to the date hereof 14 days is the sum of 7.58Daily interest at the rate of .54  Costs Defence  The Defendant contends that the particulars of the claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.   1. It is admitted with regards to the Defendant once having had banking facilities with the original creditor Santander Bank. It is denied that I am indebted for any alleged balance claimed.   2. Paragraph 2 is denied.I am not aware or ever receiving any Notice of Assignment pursuant to the Law and Property Act 1925. It is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer crediticon Act 1974. The Claimant has yet to provide a copy of the Notice of Assignment its claim relies upon.   3. Paragraph 3 is denied. The Original Creditor has never served notice pursuant to 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974  Any alleged amount claimed could only consist in the main of default penalties/charges levied on the account for alleged late, rejected or over limit payments. The court will be aware that these charge types and the recoverability thereof have been judicially declared to be susceptible to assessments of fairness under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 The Office of Fair Trading v Abbeyicon National PLC and others (2009). I will contend at trial that such charges are unfair in their entirety.  4. As per Civil Procedureicon Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.  The claimant is also put to strict proof to:-.  (a) Provide a copy agreement/overdraft facility arrangement along with the Terms and conditions at inception that this claim is based on.  (b) Provide a copy of the Notice served under 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974 Demand /Recall Notice and Notice of Assignment.  (c) Provide a breakdown of all excessive charging/fees and show how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed.   (d) Show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.  (e) Show how they have complied with sections III & IV of Practice Direction - Pre-action Conduct.  5. On receipt of this claim I requested documentation by way of a CPR 31.14 request dated April 2015 namely the Agreement and Termination Demand Notice referred to in the claimants Particulars of Claim. The Claimant has failed to comply with this request.   By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.  Regards  Andy    
    • Hi   Just read your thread and looked at the Docs posted in your PDF.   1. from AST to rent a Car Parking space you need to have signed a Car Parking Agreement for a Space and for visitors you should have asked permission for another space in advance with a fee to pay. (i also assume renting a parking space would be at a cost)   2. You have no signed Car Parking Agreement nor visitor space agreement.   Did you not fully read that AST before you signed it and pick up what is stated about parking and ask them about this Car Parking Agreement and if you need one to park in the car park?   You could formally complain to them about what was verbally said to you but unless you have evidence of this it may be hard to prove.   You should also contact them and ask how you go about renting a Car Parking space/costs and about the Car Parking Agreement also what the process is for a visitor car parking space/costs.   You need to be aware that they could class you and your visitor as illegally parking in there car park without consent nor a signed car parking agreement which they could use as a Breach of your Tenancy Agreement so you need to be careful in how you are approaching this and where you are parking.   Just for info on checking Manchester Life website they have numerous buildings/apartments/car parks but you may be in a building where some of the apartments are leasehold and as part of there leasehold they may have purchased a car parking space in that building. (so how do you know you are not parking in a space that someone in the building has legally purchased?)
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smith winston

Lowell claimform - old EON utils bill

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Hi all 

 

I could do with some advice / input on the following:

 

I also have a Lowell claim pending for an old eon account - they must have bought a large batch of old accounts data and are now trying their usual bully boy tactics...

 

This refers to an old utility account taken out in 2010, 2 or 3 addresses ago

The amount claimed is £550 + interest + costs

I received a letter before action prior to receiving nccbc claim form

Lowell sent a NoA supposedly from Eon - it was on Lowell paper (sideways print in the margin) with Eon's logo and signature cut-n-pasted on it

I have not received any Default Notice from the Eon, nor annual Notices of Default

Originally, Eon setup 2 separate dd's for gas & electric. In 2011/2012 I tried to switch suppliers for better prices. Eon contacted me and told me that I could not switch supplies due to the contract terms. I accepted this and instructed them to reinstate both dd's. They only reinstated one of the payments. I contacted them again and was assured that the second dd would also be reinstated. Around this time my business and relationship were both failing and I didn't notice that the second dd still wasn't reinstated

I do not remember exactly when the last payment was made on this account, but I think it would have been in June 2013 when I moved from that address.

 

There is nothing on my credit report regarding Eon or Lowell

 

 

Claim form dated 09-jul-2019

 

POC:

POC: 
1.The Defendant entered into a supply and service agreement with Eon energy solutions under account reference XXXXXXXX ("the Agreement") 

2.The Agreement later ended but a liability remained outstanding for payment 

3.The Agreement was later assigned to the Claimant on XXXX2018 and notice given to the Defendant 

4.Despite repeated requests for payment the sum of £XXXXX remains due and outstanding 

5.And the Claimant claims 
The said sum ……. 
Interest pursuant to s69 ……. 
Costs

 

 

I wrote to Lowell asking for documentary proof of the validity of their claim, asking for copies of  the original agreement with Ts&Cs, DoA (redacted to protect 3rd parties) , NoA, statements, Notice of Default and any other documents they intend to use. I cited the CPR31.14 and GDPR 2018.

The next day I realised I had not formatted my letter correctly, so sent them an official CPR31.14 request also requesting their agreement for additional time to file my defence, followed by a Part 18 request for the items not listed in POC. I also sent a GDPR 2018 request to Eon specifying all the relevant information I need for my defence.

 

 

The MCOL online system would not let me log in (error messages) I contacted the nccbc who confirmed its a real claim. I emailed my acknowledgement of service and notified the court that I had requested information from Lowell and for their agreement to add additional time to file my defence. Nccbc replied they had received no further communication from Lowell and the deadline to file my defence was 12/08/2019 and file a defence purely based on the POC

 

I have received a response to my first letter to Lowell :-

 they cannot request a copy of the original agreement due to CCA1974 rules

 they will not send me DoA in any form due to commercial sensitivity & confidentiality

 they sent a copy of a "Revised Final Bill - estimated dated 01-08-2014" but NOT any statements or a default notice

 they sent a copy of Lowell's NoA on the reverse of a slightly different supposedly Eon NoA ( same cut-n-paste signature but no pasted logo)

 they have ignored everything else I asked for or referred to in my letter

 

They have not responded to my CPR31.14 or my Part 18 requests

Eon have not responded to my GDPR 2018 request.

 

 

 

Now I need to file my defence...………..

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say you you left the property in june 2013 and that was probably the last payment.

they've produced a bill from aug 2014 for £550? 

what period does that bill say it covers.

 

dx

 


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Ideally you should have submitted your defence Friday by 4.00pm (due Sat 10th)...so it must be submitted by 4.00pm tomorrow without fail.

 

CPR 18 is not applicable to small claims track and the debt is not covered by the CCA1974.....hence no default notice or notices of default.

Also they are not at liberty to disclose the DOA...only the NOA

 

 

 

Andy


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Hi

thanks for your quick replies.

 

Lowell have sent me a "Final revised bill - estimated" dated August 2014

it does show a specific period - it shows balance before this bill as 550, balance in march 2014 as 550, and balance due as 550

it doesn't show when the last payment was made

I think it was june2013 I moved - could have been july.

 

 

 

OK.

I was given to understand that at this stage there is no specific track for the claim, so a cpr part 18 is valid until a track has been allocated by the court in PD ?   

I also read that they never allow access to DoA for a claimant, but being subject of the assignment its worth asking the question.

 

 

 

I'm just about to post my draft defence -  if someone can pick the bones out of it that would be really appreciated

 

 

 

 

 

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No thats a myth...its assumed SCT pre allocation ..CPR 18 is not applicable

 

Sure fire away


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eon cant issue a bill more than 12mts after the last one 

backbilling rule applies

no debt to answer IMHO.

and even if there was it must be statute barred.

why haven't you spotted this??

 

dx

 


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Ah ok, no worries.

 

bare with me a few minutes on that defence....

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ok guys,  heres my defence draft,   any/all advice appreciated

 

 

IN THE NORTHAMPTON COUNTY COURT (CCBC)

 


 

Claim No:

BETWEEN:

 

 

Lowell Portfolio 1 Limited CLAIMANT


 

And


 

DEFENDANT

 

 

DEFENCE

 

 

1. I received the claim from the Northampton County Court

dated 09th July 2019.


 

2. Each and every allegation in the Claimants’ statement of case

is denied unless specifically admitted in this Defence.


 

3. This claim appears to be for a domestic utilities supply

agreement.


 

4. The Claimants’ statement of case fails to give adequate

information to enable me to properly assess my position with

regards the claim.


 

5. The Claimants’ statement of case states that the account was

assigned from Eon Energy Solutions to Lowell Portfolio. The Defendant

does not recall receiving an authentic notice of this assignment from

the original creditor - the version provided by the Claimant appears not

to be an authentic document from the original creditor. 


 

6. The claimant is put to strict proof that a notice of assignment

was issued in accordance with the Law of Property Act 1925.


 

7. On the 18th July 2019 I sent a request for information and documentation to Lowell Solicitors. I requested the Claimant provide copies of the contract / agreement (the “Agreement”) between Eon Energy Solutions and the Defendant, terms and conditions of said contract, the Deed

of Assignment, the Notice of Assignment, Default Notice, statements of the account, and all other documents or date they intend to use as evidence.


 

8. On the 21st July 2019 I sent a request for inspection of

documents mentioned in the Claimants’ statement of case under

Civil Procedure Rule 31.14 to Lowell Solicitors. I requested the Claimant

provide copies of the contract / agreement (the “Agreement”) between

Eon and the Defendant, terms and conditions of said contract, the Deed

of Assignment, the Notice of Assignment and of the

Default Notice.


 

9. On 21st July 2019 I sent a subject access request to Eon Energy Solutions under the General Data Protection Regulations 2018 for information related to the Defendant and the said supply and service agreement. I requested true copies of the original contract / agreement, along with its terms and conditions, statements to show usage and payments against the account, the notice of default, notice of cancellation/termination of the account, notice of assignment, and any notes, memos, transcripts on file related to the account.


 

10. On 07th August 2019 I received a response from Lowell Solicitors. The Claimant refuses to provide a copy of the original contract /

agreement ( the “Agreement”) and is refusing to request a copy from the original creditor.


 

11.Lowell Solicitors have provided copies of the Notice of Assignment, and a copy of a “Revised final bill – estimated” from Eon energy Solutions dated August 2014, but have not responded to my CPR 31.14 request, nor have they provided any other documents that I requested


 

12. Eon Energy Solutions have not responded to my subject access request under the General Data Protection Regulations 2018.


 


 

13. Under Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) Where the claim includes a

money claim, a defendant shall be taken to require that any

allegation relating to the amount of money claimed be proved

unless he expressly admits the allegation. Therefore It is

expected that the Claimant be required to prove the allegation

that the money is owed as claimed.


 

14. I believe the last payment made by the defendant to Eon Energy Solutions was prior to July 2013. Under the Limitations Act 1980, any liability of the defendant against the said supply and service agreement would now be Statute Barred. The unwillingness of the Claimant to provide the documentation I have requested only serves to confirm my belief that the alleged liability is beyond the 6 year time limit.


 

15. I request the court orders the Claimant to provide the

necessary documentation in order for me to fully plead my case

else the Claim should stand struck out.


 

16. In the event that the relevant documents are received from the

Claimants I will then be in a position to amend my defence, and

would ask that the Claimants bear the costs of the amendment.


 

17. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief as

claimed or at all.


 

Statement of Truth


 

The Defendant believes that the facts stated in this Defence are

true.

 

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 I believe the last payment made by the defendant to Eon Energy Solutions was prior to July 2013.

 

Do you know the date in July 2013 ?


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unfortunately not.

 

I moved over several weeks. 

Ive moved again since then, and no longer have all the paperwork.

 

Ive found some bits n pieces connected to Eon but they only show 2010/2011.

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phone EON and ask?

 

dx

 


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I've been digging through some old boxes of papers, trying to nail down a date.

 

I screwed up somewhat !  I now know I moved out in July 2014

 

I cant find details of a last payment to Eon, but I have found gas n electric bills for Npower showing ongoing supply in March 2014.

 

I think I had left Eon by end of June 2013 but I cant be sure.

should I remove the statute barred part of my defence?

 

 

and is the overall format of the rest of the defence ok, considering that I will have to email it as I am unable to login to the MCOL system.

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 “Revised final bill – estimated” from Eon energy Solutions dated August 2014

 

"  but I have found gas n electric bills for Npower showing ongoing supply in March 2014."

 

I think I would be doing some phone calls early tomorrow to get your facts correct

 

Your point 13 is irrelevant to the claim and has no connection to the claimant.


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Point 13 -  thanks, I hadn't spotted that.  (in case it wasn't obvious, I copied a similar defence and adapted accordingly)

 

I'm really nervous about leaving my submission any later than tonight. I'll be on the road almost all day tomorrow and cant guarantee getting back in time to file by 4pm.

 

is it best to leave  the SB element out ?  Under cpr31.14 I thought they had to provide all their evidence on request?

 

I'm really sure that it is SB - if I left that part in and they come up with some paperwork to contradict my belief whats the worst case scenario then?

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you cant mix anything with a claim of SB.

it either solely its SB'd or do not inc that.

 

gather your data tomorrow

it wont hurt to file late you are a litigant in person and are given certain leeway.

 

i'd much prefer to see our std holding/ no paperwork defence used too.

I pers don't like that defence you've suggested at all.

 

one thing to remember about all these util bills sold to DCA's of recent.

why didn't the util co do it?

they pump out CCJ's like tomorrow

so there must be a reason why not on this one.

 

pers I think its got something to do with the more than 12mts between the last real bill and the revised bill.

back billing rules clearly state they cannot claim anything back outside of 12mts 

 

and if there is no actual usage by you in the 12mts prior to the date of the revised bill...IMHO you owe nowt

and thats why EON sold it on.

 

just musings


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3 minutes ago, dx100uk said:

 

 

i'd much prefer to see our std holding/ no paperwork defence used too.

I pers don't like that defence you've suggested at all.

Thanks.

Do you have a link for a template of this defence ^

 

makes sense now that it would either be SB defence or not

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CPR 31.14 can only request documents referred to in their particulars of claim.

 

The Defendant entered into a supply and service agreement with Eon energy solutions under account reference XXXXXXXX ("the Agreement")

The Agreement later ended but a liability remained outstanding for payment

The Agreement was later assigned to the Claimant on XXXX2018 and notice given to the Defendant

Despite repeated requests for payment the sum of £XXXXX remains due and outstanding

 

Your defence puts them to strict proof to which you already cover in your point 13. Under Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) 


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Andyorch - Its been a long day, I'm not quite sure I follow you here.

 

I did notice that the POC mentions the Agreement, and that Lowell Solicitors tell me they can't/won't provide it, and can't/won't ask Eon for it because under CCA1974 the OC isn't required to keep it.

Which I thik is a fairly good defence in itself.

 

But I'm not following the bit about point 13.

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utils bills are not credit so are not covered by the consumer credit act.

 

one of the many mistakes you've made rather than coming here earlier...…...


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I agree, Ive made many mistakes. I get that utilities are completely different to banks etc.

Is it not just a basic principle that if they make a claim based on an agreement or contract and they cite that agreement/contract in their POC they should have that document or at least access to it?  

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there isn't one as such

you signed nothing..

 

 


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OK dx100uk.

I know I didn't have computer or internet in 2010 when the Eon contrac started - I did everything on paper

I'm not sure where that leaves me now - if theyre citing an agreement that never actually exists....does that help me because I cant be bound to a non existant contract, or would the court assume that using and paying for 3(ish) years I agree by default?

 

Am I better to amend the following to suit my case ??

 

Defence

 

1.The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature.The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

2.The Claimant has not complied with paragraph 3 of the PAPDC ( Pre Action Protocol) Failed to serve a letter of claim pre claim pursuant to PAPDC changes of the 1st October 2017.It is respectfully requested that the court take this into consideration pursuant to 7.1 PAPDC.


3. Paragraph 1 is denied. Whilst I have had dealings with Barclaycard  in the past I cannot recall the specifics of the alleged agreement.

 

4. Paragraph 2 is denied .I have no knowledge of who the claimant is nor have I been provided with any Notice of Assignment pursuant to the Law of Property Act 1925.

 

5.Paragraph 3  is denied.I am not aware of service of a Default Notice by the original creditor or Legal Assignment the claimant refers to within its particulars of claim .

 

6. It is denied that any amounts are due under any agreement.

 

7. On receipt of this claim I requested information pertaining to this claim from Howard Cohen & Co Solicitors by way of a CPR 31:14 request sent via 1st class recorded post on 17/07/2019.Further to the above I sent Hoist Finance UK Holdings 3 LTD a section 78 request via 1st class recorded post on 17/07/2019.

 To date, neither Howard Cohen nor Hoist Portfolio are yet to furnish me with the requested information .

 

8.Therefore with the court’s permission the Claimant is put to strict proof to

 

a) show and disclose how the Defendant has entered into an agreement;

b) show and disclose how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed for;

c) show and evidence the nature of breach and service of a Default Notice pursuant to Sec 87 (1) CCA1974.

d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

 

9. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

10. On the alternative, if the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer crediticon Act 1974.6.

 

By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

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no that's a card CCA defence.

dx


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ok,

thanks

I've been searching for the std holding/no paperwork defence mentioned earlier - not found anything yet that looks right

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in a way you are the 1st

lots of recent threat-o-gram threads but no actual claims for these till you and one other running here

i'll see what I can do bearing in mind what I think.

i'll post it up for the morning then andyorch can poke holes in it as legal is not my game...he's the expert.

 

but yes it will encompass many of those points.

probably a mobile phone one with adaptions.

 

dx


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

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