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smith winston

Lowell claim form - old EON utils bill ***Claim Discontinued***

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….just as an aside - the NoA supposedly from Eon:

its on Lowell paper - has their code written sideways in the margin and their scannable square thing on it. The Eon logo has been cut-n-pasted on, as has the signature. 

If I did something like that I'd be accused of fraud, but are Lowell allowed to do this ??

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ok.

thanks again dx

 

still searching a suitable no paperwork defence to adapt but my eyes are going fuzzy now, lol

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Right, so eon won't discuss the account (at least not on the phone) as it's been assigned, so still no clue about the last payment to them.

Npower say the first payment they can see is from January 2014.

So I have to assume that's when the supply was switched, which would rule out the SB defence.

Just spoken to the nccbc - there's been no changes there, no info or communication from the claimant.

 

So I still need to cobble together a no paperwork defense. Any pointers here would be useful.

The lady at nccbc  thought it likely to be stayed, while being careful not to be giving any legal advice or opinion.

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I would suggest something along the following lines...keep it as vague as the claimant particulars.....after all they will have little knowledge of the debt of how it accrued if at all.

So it keep it short ...dont feed information...they only have a name address amount and reference number.

 

Particulars of claim for reference only

 

1.The Defendant entered into a supply and service agreement with Eon energy solutions under account reference XXXXXXXX ("the Agreement") 

2.The Agreement later ended but a liability remained outstanding for payment 

3.The Agreement was later assigned to the Claimant on XXXX2018 and notice given to the Defendant 

4.Despite repeated requests for payment the sum of £XXXXX remains due and outstanding 

5.And the Claimant claims 
The said sum ……. 
Interest pursuant to s69 ……. 
Costs

 

1.The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature.The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

2.The Claimant has not complied with paragraph 3 of the PAPDC ( Pre Action Protocol) Failed to serve a letter of claim pre claim pursuant to PAPDC changes of the 1st October 2017.It is respectfully requested that the court take this into consideration pursuant to 7.1 PAPDC.

 

3. It is admitted that I have entered into a supply and service agreement with EON Energy Solutions in the past.However , from January 2014 my supplier was switched to Npower and therefore it is not possible to leave a remaining unpaid balance.

 

4.Furthermore, the claimant has given no details as to the breakdown of their claim so the defendant is unable to defend specifically.

 

5. The claimant openly admits that they do not have access to the agreement nor was the Assignor required to retain a copy.Therefore their claim is unsubstantiated. Pursuant to the civil procedure rules Practice Direction 16 (7.3) Where a claim is based upon a  written agreement:

 

(1) a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s)  should be available at  the hearing.

 

With the court’s permission the Claimant is put to strict proof to:-

 

a) show and disclose how the Defendant has entered into an agreement;

b) show and disclose how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed ;

c) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

 

6. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

7. It is therefore denied that the defendant is indebted to the claimant as alleged or at all.

 


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Andy, you are a star !!

Thank you very much !

 

I will file it shortly and update the thread as required.

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Following this thread.

 

Just a suggestion, why not SAR Eon?

 

They clearly cant respond in time for your urgent filing but should the case progress you will have loads of data to sift through in order to pick out various dates etc.  They might  not speak with you because the account was assigned but they cant ignore a SAR.

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Because EON have washed their hands of it and are no longer the DATA Controller ...Lowell are the legal owners and its for them to prove their claim...they inherit all the responsibilities and disputes on Assignment of debt. 


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I think that was a reasonable question Jimmy.

And as Andy said, once its assigned its no longer their concern.

But I did SAR them anyway, when I cpr31-14'd Lowell, just out of curiosity to see if they were holding any jokers....or at least, to see if they'd admit to them.

Actually, my first letter to Lowell was a SAR - they've conveniently ignored that

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Hi all...….an update. and some questions

My defence was filed and acknowledged by the court.

 

Lowell Solicitors wrote 24/8: they are requesting (or agreeing to) mediation in their directions Questionnaire and asking me to agree to it in mine.

I haven't received a Directions Questionnaire - should I have one sent by the court ?

 

in the meantime I've had a few other letters from them, I'll just give the abridged versions - if its better to upload as jpg images let me know.

 

30/7   the usual blurb about not being regulated by CCA 1984 so agreements, Ts&Cs and default don't apply; please pay us; copies of statement and NoA enclosed (but they weren't). 

the only interesting part is the following sentence - "the supply of both gas and electricity ended on 18 February and the final payment of £xxx.xx was made on 24 March 2014."

this is the exact figure shown on the copy statement they sent before some weird deductions were credited to reduce it to the original figure they were demanding. If they refer to their letters as evidence that throws a bit of a spanner in their works?

 

02/8  more of the usual blurb about not being CCA1984 regulated so no agreements available: no copy of DoA available, copy of NoA and Eon statement enclosed

 

12/8   they reject my CPR part18 request: "it is noted that you want to obtain evidence to file a defence to the claim form that has been issued. it is noted that the purpose of part 18 is to provide information on a matter of dispute. you have not provided any evidence that you do not owe the outstanding balance nor you dispute it."   In capital letters at the top of my letter to them a month ago stated that I don't owe them anything.

also : "your agreement is not an agreement for services so there is no requirement pursuant to the CCA1984 to retain or provide the agreement"   not once have I mentioned cca1984 - I want to see proof of an agreement that eon gives me heat & light in return for money, if that's not a service what the hell is??

 

23/8  they acknowledge my defence

responding to my defence that they failed to comply with Practice Direction 16 of PAC -  "please find enclosed letter of claim dated 27/5" (it wasn't enclosed)

responding to my defence that they hadn't provided NoA - "please find attached a reconstituted copy of the NoA" (it wasn't attached)

responding to my defence that they had failed to provide evidence of debt with the claim form - under CPR16.4 its not required, and under CPR31.11 it doesn't apply to small claims and under PD7C.14 (3A) and para 7.3 of PD16 does not apply to CCBC.

responding to my request for a copy of the agreement - again due to not being CCA1984 regulated they don't have it, cant get it, don't need it.

 

 

Lowell still have not acknowledged the GDPR SAR element of my first letter

Eon also have not responded to my GDPR SAR letter - not that I expected them to.

 

So should I write back to Lowell to point out all the missing attachments/enclosures, and remind them about the SAR, and the agreement again not related to CCA1984 ??

 

Should I accept mediation ??

Whats the procedure regarding my Practice Direction ??

 

I would also like to ask a question privately by pm if that's possible

 

 

Thanks in advance for your input

 

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you should be reading up om like claim then you wouldn't be asking much of the above

 

and you'd know lowells always send out the self same letter re n180 you've got to everyone that defends a Lowell claimform.

 

nothing you need to do nor worry about until you get your N180 from the court.

 

the fact that you sent an part 18 was before you came here and found out its not applicable.

 

dx

 

 

 


..

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Check on the MCOL website the status of the claim .....if the last entry is defence submitted...then they have not yet advised the court they wish to proceed, hence you have not received your N180. If the status states allocated then you need to chase up your Directions Questionnaire although its easily available to download direct or from our Legal Library but you still require the date to be submitted by MCOL.

 

Andy


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Hi, thank you guys.

 

For some reason the mcol system doesn't accept my user/password. I'll ring them when I get a chance..

 

Probably a really dumb question, but as it's not a normal debt claim, or not cca regulated, would this fall under basic contract law? I've done a bit of googling and can't find a definitive answer as to what the laws on domestic utilities are.

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Well it is a contract so yes...but irrespective thats why we include the following in defences for this type of claim :-

 

 

Pursuant to the civil procedure rules Practice Direction 16 (7.3) Where a claim is based upon a  written agreement:-

 

(1) a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s)  should be available at  the hearing.

 

Follow the the following thread defence submitted yesterday.

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/416714-lowell-claimform-ohs-old-eon-debt/page/6/#comments

 

 

Andy


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Cool. Thanks Andy.

 

I called NCCBC,  (got through straight away to a very polite helpful person btw)

 

Silly me for not realising..... Lowell's print their own directions questionnaire forms, just like they seem to be able to create any other document from any source to suit their needs 😉

 

The copy they sent me was dated 24/8, I received it 31/8, NCCBC haven't got their copy yet and will need 5 working days to process before forwarding my directions questionaire.

( I mention this and the timescale for future readers benefit )

 

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Lowell download them you mean as anyone can and serve them first on the defendant.... without informing the court they wish to proceed, to make you panic and roll over.

 

MCOL should know if they have informed them to proceed....as they should send the blank forms out....with the date its required to be submitted and returned by.

 

So the person you spoke to..... may be polite and helpful ......but not have any knowledge of procedure.

 

 


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Ahh, ok. My mistake/ignorance. I had assumed (yep, stupid I know) that the court had sent it to them.

I did panic a little, thinking that mine had gone missing in post, but no chance of rolling over on this.

 

Read your linked post - hadn't seen that before. Interesting to note D3 how many witnesses including yourself will give evidence...... Lowell put "0"

.....and they're solicitors doing this all day every day !! Pure muppetry 😁

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Not your mistake or ignorance.....simply lack of experience....we deal with 1000s of claims from this crew and know every trick in the book that they use to intimidate defendants.

Keep trying MCOL and see if you can log in.....the screen does not lie.

 

It will say " Allocated out " if they have informed MCOL to proceed.


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Hi all, time for an update.....

Since my last post here I received a letter saying the claimants agreed to or requested mediation I responded also agreeing to mediation.

 

Then I heard nothing until 2 letters last week telling me that the case has been transferred to my local county court for a hearing in late January.

 

Paperwork is really poor photocopy of a photocopy of a photocopy quality, but it seems I have to prepare a witness statement in the next couple of weeks.

 

I'll research this, but I assume right now that it will be broadly similar in style and content to the defence I put in response to the claim ??

 

Is that right?

And is there anything in particular or do's and dont's that I need to pay special attention to?

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think theres a few witness statements here for util bills

 

try the search top right

 

claimform util 

or claimform eon.

 

dx


..

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Thanks dx.

 

I meant to ask in last post, as it's now been allocated to my local court does that suggest that mediation is now off the table, or is this just another procedural step?

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obv didn't happen as you've received the N157


..

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Final update....I think

 

so, I was just about to contact the local court for a status report, because today was the deadline for Lowell to pay their court fees and the post arrived......

 

Lowell has bailed out and filed a Notice of Discontinuance - probably because someone there finally realised there is no proof of claim on their side. I'm surprised it took them this long.....unless its part of their scare tactics to cause fear and intimidation.

I am relieved, but in a way disapointed, as I was prepared to walk into court and show on record what a bunch of incompetants they are.

 

I'd like to give a huge thank you to the guys here that helped me draft my defence and offered help, advice and encouragement along the way. I hope anyone else being chased for really old utility bills can use the info given in this thread to ward off cockroach debt collectors.

 

Thanks again people,

 

Winston.

 

ps please excuse the grainy images, my scanner spat its dummy out so i had to use a camera phone to upload

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Please only use pdf

well done

you won.

 

nothing unusual!!


..

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