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CLI/IRD Claimform - Australian Visa Fees relating to potential Employment


Ginni1062
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On 15/10/2020 at 13:20, Ginni1062 said:

Hi Andyorch,

 

I have received a letter through the post today for the notice of proposed allocation to the small claims track with a questionnaire to fill out and file it with the court office before 2/11/20.

 

Is this the normal procedure then?

 

Oct 15th Was the date you submitted your N180

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The notes section of the hearing letter states that 'if you cannot, or choose not to, attend the hearing, you must write and tell the court at least 7 days before the date of the hearing. The District judge will hear the case in your absence, but will take account of your statement of case and any other documents you have filed". 

 

So, I suppose I'm going to have to put this in writing and try and put a really good third Witness statement together. I'm gutted that after all this and the final hearing I can't attend but with the sounds of it I can't change this one like CLI could with the resolution hearing as he were away for one of the hearings.

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Yes that's okay I checked to see the dates.

 

So now if your unable to attend when you submit your statement /disclosure's you attach a covering letter to your statement and refer to it within your opening paragraph to inform the court you will not be in attendance.

 

CPR 27.9

 

Non-attendance of parties at a final hearing

27.9

(1) If a party who does not attend a final hearing–

(a) has given written notice to the court and the other party at least 7 days before the hearing date that he will not attend;

(b) has served on the other party at least 7 days before the hearing date any other documents which he has filed with the court; and

(c) has, in his written notice, requested the court to decide the claim in his absence and has confirmed his compliance with paragraphs (a) and (b) above,

the court will take into account that party’s statement of case and any other documents he has filed and served when it decides the claim.

(a) attend the hearing; and

(b) give the notice referred to in paragraph (1),

the court may strike out(GL) the claim.

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part27#27.9

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Thanks @Andyorch

 

Also, I'm panicking now that if I lose this case what happens with costs etc? Am I better off just contacting CLI and trying to organise a way of paying this back as I'm worried I'm going to get extra court cost etc.

 

Is there anyway you can help with a statement that will help me in professional way as I'm not 100% what to write in this to defend myself on the best possible way 🙄

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Costs are awarded to the successful party but restricted given that this is a small claim track claim. Additional costs may be for counsel involved in the hearing which would be added to the initial costs already stated on the claim form.

 

I wouldn't get cold feet at this stage but is understandable if you have never had to deal with this before. Even if you were to lose the costs spread out over the initial amount claimed would be negligible if paid over an agreed affordable monthly arrangement.

 

The bottom line is until the claimant can provide written evidence that the charges stand and you are liable for the charges even if employment or emigration was to fail with your accepted signature, then a court would find it very unfair to award judgment given on an hearsay understanding.

 

Yes we can assist with your statement nearer the time...but you will have to nudge me say a week before its due to be filed.

 

Andy.

 

 

 

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Not a problem but I would appreciate that you do a little ground work also and draft a rough copy in your own words of the main points of contention and support in your initial defence to the claim.

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No to your thread

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I think that's what Ginni intended anyway DX :wink:

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  • 1 month later...

Hi guys,

 

I hope you all had a good Christmas and New Year?

 

@Andyorchi am 90% way through my 3rd witness statement i will finish it off tomorrow and attach a copy to this chat for you to support if that is ok?

 

I have to submit it 21 days before court which gives me till around the 26th of this month.

 

TIA.

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Hi Ginni

 

Yes please upload when your ready.

 

Andy

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Hi Andy,

 

I have been through all the evidence they have sent in regards to making the payments to the immigration agent as in the last hearing CLI stated that the sponser (Dongara) haven't signed the immigration agents agreement to pay the fees. So now they have sent evident that they have actually paid the fees so when I have reviewed all the evidence it stands out that the letters they have been sending me with the amount I owe $14,275 is different to what's on the immigration agents contract (fees table) and different to other letters. There seems to be 3 different figures. 

 

Also, on the immigration agents contract where it states who is responsible for the fees I have signed it date 17/04/2018 Dongara haven't signed it and then the immigration agent has supposingly signed it 2 years later at 17/04/2020????? 🤔🤔

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I am trying to reference all this to attach as evidence so bare with me as it all seems suspicious to me that CLI are saying that Dongara haven't agreed to pay it so when I questioned that I don't owe anybody money then they have now sent all this evidence that Dongara have actually paid it now it all doesn't match up? 🤔

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Keep digging.....I suspect there will be a bit of backtracking by the claimant to make the paperwork fit their claim:roll:

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Yes I have done and git it all I'm just putting into the witness statement referencing them as the exhibits. Il hopefully get it to you tonight 

 

Hi @Andyorch

 

Please find attached my 3rd witness statement, please let me know if i need to make any changes. 

 

Also, is the first paragraph acceptable that states i wont be attending court (think you said i needed to attached a cover letter too)

 

TIA

EDITED OUT 3RD WITNESS STATEMENT.docx

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Okay thanks that's great...just a few suggestion's.

 

Remove the paragraph re none attendance...that is covered on the cover letter attached to the statement (please upload a copy to see if its drafted correctly)

 

With regards to the statement the detail is great the exhibits all marked clearly and concise.

 

I would spend a little more time on your conclusion and re word it so it informs the court precisely why the claimant's claim should be dismissed and just reiterate that there are no legal grounds as to why this is a valid debt owed by yourself.

 

Have a go post a final paragraph here and I will tweak it if necessary.

 

Good job well done Ginni

 

Andy

  

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Thanks Andy, il do that tonight 👍

 

Hi @Andyorchplease see my summary around how i am entering any form of credit agreement and how i am liable for the money. Any feedback would be appreciated. 

 

TIA.

 

 

Finally, I’d like to challenge that I am liable for the supposed debt that Dongara Marine have passed on to CLI as this was one email from Dongara Marine with a suggestion of me paying them back at $200 a week.

 

There were no other options or affordability mentions or checks, there were no start dates, duration times this wasn’t an agreement it wasn’t even a discussion as when I replied with my potential option of ‘When I sell my house to pay the visa back’ I didn’t even get a response or reply to agree or confirm either option

 

so, them suggesting an option and me suggesting an option on how it could potentially be repaid is difficult to understand or accept this as myself entering any type of credit agreement or owing money to Dongara Marine.

 

Also, there has been no credit agreement between me and Dongara Marine about this money, I haven’t even signed anything to say I owe this money. I just don’t understand how one email with a suggestion on is me entering a credit agreement.

 

I would like to challenge CLI to prove that I have entered any agreement and provide evidence of me entering the agreement with a signature on or how I have potentially entered an agreement for the credit owed as there has never been an agreement or acknowledgement on how or when this were going to be paid.

 

As I also visited Dongara Marine in Australia and met HR and the managing Director nobody mentioned any agreement about money or got me to sign anything.

 

When researching the minimum criteria of entering any credit agreement I found that these were the following:

 

·         Information provided before entering a credit agreement – I were given nothing about any credit agreement apart from an email with a sentence stating $200 a week to which I replied to with my option, and I got no acknowledgement. How I can enter any agreement without an acknowledgement difficult to understand.

 

·         The nature of the agreement – again there has never been an agreement as stated above.

 

·         The content and form of credit – I don’t understand what form of credit this is or how I have ended up into any type of credit debt without signing any agreement or getting acknowledgment from Dongara Marine.

 

·         Procedures relating to events of default, termination, and early settlement – none of this has ever been provided or communicated in any form.

 

If CLI could provide any evidence of the minimum criteria of myself entering a credit agreement with Dongara Marine I would understand but by an email with no acknowledgements or agreements does not accept me entering into any agreement even agreeing credit at a distance I can’t, see how this would even stand as being liable.

 

Also, as I mentioned I did visit the employer in Australia so really when I was with the employer, they had every opportunity to put together and a credit agreement in a hard copy form and give it to me in person and get me to sign it along with all the other things that should be provided when entering any credit agreement.

 

This never happened so unfortunately, I find it difficult to accept I have entered any credit agreement with Dongara Marine at a distance or in person.

 

 

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A bit lengthy and repetitive I was thinking more of 1 paragraph as a simple conclusion. :wink:

 

Conclusion

 

Pursuant to CPR 16 PD 16 where a claim is based upon a written agreement :(1) a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be available at the hearing.

 

Therefore for the above foresaid reasons it is denied that I am liable for the alleged debt brought by the claimant. There is no signed credit agreement or verbal acceptance on which this claim is based upon. I therefore respectively request that the court dismiss this claim and request costs in time and defending the matter.

 

 

Don't forget to upload your cover letter re none attendance at the hearing.

 

Andy

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For some reason I didn't get a notification for this post 🙄

 

I will get the cover letter knocked up over the weekend and attach, is this cover letter just a paragraph stating that I won't be attending court and the reason why?

 

Thanks for that @Andyorch

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Yes.....I ill add the relevant legal spiel 

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I have just received the final evidence bundle from CLI before the final court hearing. 

 

The letter that is attached states that if I have anything evidence to add to the bundle I should send it to CLI before the 25th January so they can add it to the ir bundle?

 

I thought I just need to submit my final witness statement to the courts and CLI within the timeframe? Not so they can add it to their bundle?

 

TIA

Ginni

 

 

 

CLI.pdf

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Normal process when dealing with a claim in Fast Track that both parties agree bundle inclusions...but this is small claim track and any evidence is submitted independently by parties ...not shared.

 

If you have referred to any documents within your statement you should conclude that paragraph with ( see exhibit 1 a/1b / etc etc) and number them accordingly ...(if you don't refer to it and attach it you cant rely or submit it as evidence) then attach a cover letter to the statement with the list and name of documents....along with the documents themselves.....that is standard disclosure in small claims track.

 

I will get onto finalising your statement Ginni  Monday as I believe that you must file and serve next week.

 

Andy

 

 

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Thanks Andy, 

 

My statement is finalised so just need to do the cover letter with a list of Exhibits and a cover letter explaining my absence. I will do this tonight/tomorrow. 

 

As soon as I have wrote the cover letter for absence I will post on here for you to view and tell me what to add in terms of legal spiel 👍

 

I'm thinking I will forward all this on to courts & CLI Monday in time for the cut off period.

 

Thanks again.

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