CLI/IRD Claimform - Australian Visa Fees relating to potential Employment

[AndyOrch]

Yes anything you have connected to the new evidence they have disclosed...shut it down.

[Ginni1062]

Am I ok in stating that discussions were made regarding how the money would be paid back but this was just a discussion via email and nothing agreed or signed for and that Dongara didn't even reply to my email with regards to my options?

[AndyOrch]

Yes if you feel a small intro will assist and improve your response by all means....but try not to add anything they can use against you or assist them in their claim.

 

At the end of the day if they dont have a signed agreed consent agreement...they will struggle to get this over the line.

[Ginni1062]

Do I need to send this to CLI aswell as the courts?

[AndyOrch]

See point 2 of the court order ......." the parties shall send each other "

[Ginni1062]

Ok could I email this to CLI FAO ..... The claimants name.

[AndyOrch]

Yes if you have their address email or if you have previously corresponded electronically 

[Ginni1062]

Yes its on their website

[AndyOrch]

Quote

So now you submit your statement in response to the above...file and serve no later than Wed 3rd Nov 4.00pm.

 

Have you prepared anything ?

[Ginni1062]

Hiya Andy,

 

Sorry I've been working nights, yes I submitted to CLI and the court this morning my witness statement with a couple of exhibits, along with an introduction to defend my case against what CLI have put in their 2nd witness statement.

[AndyOrch]

Excellent ....didn't want you to miss the deadline. If you would upload a copy here for reference then we can refer to it if necessary.

[Ginni1062]

Thanks Andy.

 

Im at work now, but I will ASAP.

[Ginni1062]

Hi guys,

 

A quick update, I have just been to the hearing resolution and again it couldn't be resolved so it's going to county court for a face to face. 

 

We have confirmed that the Dongara haven't a leg to stand on with the money and contract with the agreement for fees etc but the issue is now down to the emails and me owing Dongara the money.

 

Also, CLI said that Dongara didn't sign the immigration agents agreement so, I questioned why do I owe them money then as if they didn't sign the agreement surely they didn't pay it so why do I owe them money?

 

Also, if I haven't signed anything or there wasn't an agreement between me and Dongara how can I owe them the money? Also in the emails they never confirmed arrangements for the money to be paid back it was literally one email saying that I could pay $200 a week back. I then replied with potentially I could pay with the sale of my house? How does this stand me as after this email they never responded or acknowledged this to agree or disagree it was only a week later that I received the immigration agents agreement with the fees on and stating that the sponser was 100% liable. 

 

Surely for me to owe somebody money I would have needed to sign some sort of agreement?

 

TIA,

Ginni

 

[AndyOrch]

On 03/11/2021 at 16:37, Andyorch said:

Excellent ....didn't want you to miss the deadline. If you would upload a copy here for reference then we can refer to it if necessary.

 

Still waiting.

[Ginni1062]

Please find attached my second witness statement.

Witness Statement 2.pdf

[Ginni1062]

Received this letter off the courts for the final hearing in person for the 16/02/2022

 

Also, I'm just checking but I thought at the beginning it were discussed on here that CLI weren't eligible to take claims to court?

 

I'm so nervous now as the judge on the resolution hearing stated at the end "she finds it difficult how this case is going to be defend but it won't be me being the judge on the day" was that aimed at me?

 

TIA Ginni.

imgtopdf_2811211845004.pdf.pdf

[unclebulgaria67]

The Judge at the previous hearing was possibly commenting that you had entered into a process of moving to Australia to work with Dongara and as part of that process it would be necessary to apply for a work visa.  And you had agreed to repay them out of wages when you started working for them.  The fact that you did not actually start working for them, does not mean you are not liable to repay Dongara.

 

Suggest that you look at every communication you had with Dongara or with the visa application company where the issue of fee repayment is mentioned. 

 

Did you tell Dongara they could proceed with visa application process  on the understanding you would repay them ?    If you did, is the main point of your defence that repayment was subject to you starting work with them and the fact that you did not start working with them, means you are not liable ?

[Ginni1062]

This is it, they was only 1 email stating that if I didn't have the funds then they would pay it for me and then I could pay it backat $200 a week. I replied with potentially this could come from the sale of my house. I then got no reply as to confirm anything I just received an email from the visa agent with an agreement that stated the sponser is 100% liable for the funds.  Ok the funds were probably between the visa agent and Dongara but what I don't get is they were no agreement between me and Dongara in regards to oweing them money etc. They have said in there previous witness statement for CLI that we discussed that even if the visa didn't go through I would still owe them the money. (There isn't any evidence of this) Seriously do you think I would of gone ahead with it if this was the case? (I wouldn't of risked that)

 

I just don't get how no agreement has been agreed or signed and 1 email that slightly discussed it to which I replied and didn't get a response from is me entering an agreement for the money?

[Ginni1062]

There is no where in writing where it states I would pay them back when I started work but this is what Dongara said to me in person as I met the HR women in the UK when she visited and we discussed this. That's why I mentioned the option of when I sell my house so I could potentially pay them from the sale of my house when I start work as we discussed in person. If we apparently agreed $200 a week why hadn't I started paying this back straight away and why did they wait for me to say I'm not starting work untill they asked for the money. (Because we discussed I person when I started work they wanted to take $200 a week from my salary).

 

Also, the question has never been raised as to why I didn't start work? Maybe I should put this in my next witness statement? So I flew out to Australia and worked for Dongara for a week (all paid for by myself) the health and safety were non existent and I worked with no safety wear (boots or mask bare in mind this were fibreglass) I were told climb on top of boat roofs with no harness and just a step ladder that wasn't attached to anything. The manager didn't once come to see me and see how I were getting on for the full week so I didn't feel welcome at all. The job was not carbon fibre which I were told and it was fibreglass. It was mostly wood work which wasnt my skillset so I were kind of worried this wasn't the job for me, so I asked a couple of the employees who were not Australian residents and they told me of you couldn't do the job when I arrived in Australia that the manager would shout at me and dock my wage like he had with them in the past and they adviced me to not leave my job in the UK for the one in Australia. This were a big shock to me and they were no way I was going to sell up and take my family of 3 children to the other side of the world for a job opportunity like this. So when I arrived back to the UK I emailed  Dongara telling them about my decision to not follow the job opportunity through. 

[unclebulgaria67]

I think the communication where you are talking about selling your house and repaying them needs to be explained, by putting this into a wider context. 

 

So you might want to explain that working for Dongara was not certain at the time of them contracting with the visa company and you had not agreed to pay the visa fees in all circumstances.

 

The point you need to be really clear about is that you only agreed to repaying the visa fees, if you accepted the employment contract offer ( subject to spending a week with Dongara), moved to Australia and started the employment.  Then go into the information briefly about why you could not accept the employment offer.

 

 

[AndyOrch]

Keep your eyes on the dates Ginni and you must comply with points 4 and 5 by the dates stated within the Notice of Allocation.

 

Andy

[Ginni1062]

Also,

 

I'm away on the 16th February on holiday abroad (subject to COVID).

 

Looking at the bottom of the letter in the notes section it says that the court will still go ahead in my absence

 

Obviously I need to send in a letter at least 7 days before but I will do that this week. Also I will need to do a third Witness statement in due course to try and stress my points the best I can .

 

 

[AndyOrch]

Did you state that you would unable on your Directions Questionnaire N180 ?

[Ginni1062]

What was this? 

 

This date has only been sent out Saturday and I booked the holiday a couple of months ago?

 

 

[AndyOrch]

When you submitted your Directions Questionnaire N180, subject to the date you filed it ,there was a section at point D4

 

Are there any days that you will not be available in the next 6 months to attend court for the hearing ? 

if yes give details.