Thurrock council knowingly illegally ticket cars?

[me_n_ze]

I have a issue with Thurrock council and it been going on for years and the story goes like this ...

 

I live with a single yellow line outside my house that had a 1pm-2pm restriction that was to stop the train commuters parking.

About 2 or 3 years ago Thurrock council decided to change the time from 1pm-2pm to 8am-11am and when I asked the parking department they said its because the bin lorrys can get into the road.... I explained that the bin lorrys come around at 6am! and not 8am 

 

Over the years I have received tickets for parking on the yellow line and have appealed to thurrock council under the grounds that the signs are incorrect.

Ive told them that the road traffic regulations states that the signs should be 30 meters apart.

They said they would send a street sign maintenance department to check this but over the 10 years or more they have never rectified the problem.

 

The signs are confusing too.

One sign shows to time limits to the left 8am-11am to the right it says 1pm-2pm  if you walk 120 meters the next sign it says 1pm-2pm and not 8am-11am.

 

Can someone give me the paragraph section in the road traffic regulations that states the correct distance..... 

 

Can someone advise how to deal with this as I'm getting fed up having to spend wasted hours sending corresponding letters and appeals...…

and before someone says just dont park outside your house....  I already know that!! 

Thurrock council has a habit of not ticketing cars for a nearly a year then turn up and ticket them day after day.....

 

 

[Michael Browne]

Have you checked the Traffic Regulation Order to see if it spaells out exactly what is on the ground.

 

The second sign doesn't conform to the regs since there is no 'No Waiting' rondel,  so who knows whats supposed to happen between 1-2 pm? Is going to rain or maybe a Girl Guide meeting?

[me_n_ze]

50 minutes ago, Michael Browne said:

Have you checked the Traffic Regulation Order to see if it spaells out exactly what is on the ground.

 

The second sign doesn't conform to the regs since there is no 'No Waiting' rondel,  so who knows whats supposed to happen between 1-2 pm? Is going to rain or maybe a Girl Guide meeting?

There is nothing on the ground but a yellow line... 

 

[me_n_ze]

I found a letter a few years ago from thurrock council 

Can anyone tell me if they are telling the truth about the sign posts allowed to be spaced out at local authorities discretion......

Please see the letter 

 

The posts they have photographed are not on the same side of the road as to where the car is parked......  I also have a street map supplied by the council that shows where all the sign posts are mounted and they are not where the map shows.... 

[me_n_ze]

Just looked 6 tickets that now have been issued and 2 of them are have been put down as the car parked in a different road to where the car was parked..... 

Just shows you how little the traffic warden has paid attention to his job!!

[Michael Browne]

Page 148  Traffic Signs Manual Chapter 3 2008.:

 

13.4.14. The signs should be erected parallel to the kerb, facing the carriageway. There is no specific requirement to provide repeater signs; it is for the traffic authority to determine whether additional signs are required and where they are to be placed. However, to ensure that drivers are adequately informed of the times when a particular restriction applies, it is recommended that signs are sited at approximately 60 m intervals (and on each side of the road where the restriction applies to both sides).

[me_n_ze]

13 minutes ago, Michael Browne said:

Page 148  Traffic Signs Manual Chapter 3 2008.:

 

13.4.14. The signs should be erected parallel to the kerb, facing the carriageway. There is no specific requirement to provide repeater signs; it is for the traffic authority to determine whether additional signs are required and where they are to be placed. However, to ensure that drivers are adequately informed of the times when a particular restriction applies, it is recommended that signs are sited at approximately 60 m intervals (and on each side of the road where the restriction applies to both sides).

Are they allowed to take a photo of a sign that is not on the same side as where the car is parked...... 

[Michael Browne]

No because the timeplate applies to that side of the road only

 

From what I can see all of Francisco Close is 1-2pm apart from this single cul-de-sac which is 8-11am;

https://goo.gl/maps/gm86TKLWbsKDkdg8A

 

where exactly did you park?

Edited August 12, 2019 by Michael Browne

[me_n_ze]

1 hour ago, Michael Browne said:

No because the timeplate applies to that side of the road only

 

From what I can see all of Francisco Close is 1-2pm apart from this single cul-de-sac which is 8-11am;

https://goo.gl/maps/gm86TKLWbsKDkdg8A

 

where exactly did you park?

The issue is where the white pajero is on that map there should be a sign there and if you walk past it the next sign on the same side shows 1pm-2pm again  and it's got to be 120 metres between the 1st post.

Someone from thurrock council sent me the screen shot of where all the sign are and where should be.....  

All the black squares are the Mark's for the yellow lines time restrictions 

Edited August 12, 2019 by me_n_ze

[Michael Browne]

OK now I'm with you.

 

one sign at the beginning of the cul-de -sac says 8-11am  here:

https://goo.gl/maps/ZfxSKGDDSLqxzDUQ7

 

and one sign at the end of the cul-de-sac on the same side of the road says 1-2pm here:

https://goo.gl/maps/MMYh88Q7C8zazmTr9

 

Clearly the 1-2pm sign was not taken down and replaced  when they changed the timings. Which means there are two contradictory signs on the same road and therefore impossible for a motorist to know which one applies since there is no visible demarcation between the two different restrictions.

 

[ericsbrother]

quote Bladon v Westminster to them and that itself quotes R v Doody 1994

In short they must be seen to be fair in ALL circumstances and 2 contradictory signs cant be fair even if they were both right