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laluna88

CEL PCN Claimform - Tenerife Buildings, Station Road, South Gosforth, Newcastle NE3 1QD

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Hi everyone,

 

Huge apologies if I'm going over old ground here, but not sure if what I've read so far applies to me or not! 

 

I received a parking 'fine' from Civil Enforcements Ltd back in April.

It took weeks for me to receive it in the first place as I was in Australia for a month after the parking infraction happened. 

 

The terms state that you have 20 minutes free parking then after that you need to register with one of the businesses to stay longer.

I'll be honest, there's signage everywhere for this little car park, I was just in a huge rush the day I parked there any didn't realise at all. Very silly of me I know

 

- I'm wondering if i should just pay the 'fine' because I did genuinely overstay by 20 mins.

Turns out though too that the business I visited, wasn't part of the car park which would've let me register (it's on the same block so not very obvious). 

 

Any help would be much appreciated as this fine is actually in my husbands name and i've been hiding it from him since it arrived as I was the one driving!

 

Thanks

 

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Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

Could you copy and paste the questions from the forum sticky, together with your answers, onto this thread please? The information will help us to advise you.

 

 

Best, HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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It's not a FINE by the way, so if you respond to the questions in the sticky provided by Honeybee, the team will be able to offer appropriate advice.


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Thanks so much.

 

Date of the infringement: 12/4/19

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date]: PCN issue date says 17/4/19

 

3 Date received: Unsure as I was away until 12th May

 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] Yes, briefly.

 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? No

 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal]: No

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up: N/A

 

7 Who is the parking company? Unsure as all correspondence is just Civil Enforcements LTD.  I'll go round later to see if there's any other signage that says who it is.

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town]: Tenerife Buildings, Station Road, South Gosforth, Newcastle NE3 1QD

 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under: It says I can appeal to POPLA if an appeal to them is unsuccessful

 

I've attached all correspondence.  

 

Thanks so much. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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well if you had read anything about CEL you will know they are probably the most dishonest parking co going and their NTK is so badly written it creates no liability to pay them  whatsoever. They dont let this worry them though, they are keen to sue people but will never attend court based upon thier court claim because they might not come out the same month.

 

So what ahve they sent you so far? Generally you can ignore it all up to the court claim but knowing the wheres and whens will help us to help you.

 

so is the land close to you and can you get down there to take some pictures of the entrance from the public highway and any signs there, piccies of any different signs round the car park and a picture of any poles with cameras on, parking meters etc.

 

They havent cretaed ANY liability, let alone keeper liability so sending lies though the post doesnt change that fact or the law that supports it. Likewise there are no legally binding additional costs and they know that as well.

 

Dont bother responding until they send a proper LBA or county court claim form with a case number on it.

 

If they do that before you ahve had a chance to get the other info we ask for please tell us adn we will advise you waht to do next

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Thanks for your quick replies, it's really appreciated! 

 

I've attached all correspondence that I've had above (let me know if you can't see it), i've not written to them at all and i've not had any other letters . The only thing I did do, was call another business that I was originally going to visit on that site (but they were closed) to see if they could sort it but the owner wasn't overly helpful.

 

It's just round the corner yes (this is one reason why it's so frustrating - if I wasn't in such a rush that day I would've just walked!!!) so I'll wander down now to get some photos. It is well signed though so I'm not very hopeful :(

 

Here is a google earth image of it for now for reference - please note that it is old though and the signage is better. I was visiting the business in grey, so still on the same site just not totally obvious! 

 



 

 

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so as said, the NTK is bog roll and makes no attempt to comply with the law. The image you post up shows no warnings about being offered terms to aprk as you eneter the land and  it is not clear that the land is actually separate from the public highway other than by the continuous DYL so if you take other case law into account it is public highway and you cant park!

 

The signs scattered about we need to see so we can read every word on them. Also I note that they appear on some buildings and not others so is there more than one landlord/occupier with the rights to offer contracts I wonder. In other words I suspect the CEL dont ahve the right to manage all of the land and as you cant tell what bits they are alolowed to run riot over the law will say none of it.

Get photographing and make a pan of the site and note every road marking and position of each sign with reference to the buildings ( get their street numbers as well), you will need this later

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we have the letters

but no images/photos/plan yet?

remember one PDF file only please

 

dx


..

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I class myself as a person with a decent amount of common sense but really struggling here to pull together everything in a PDF! The scanner has done the documents individually and now I have the plan with photos (sorry about the shoddy/child like composition of it).

 

If this still isn't ok, please let me know. Sorry for the trouble!

 

My_Images+key_Plan.pdf

 

Thanks @dx100uk - do you need me to do anything else? 

 

Cheers 

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Just wait for suggestions as to what CEL have got wrong, probably all of it, NTK non compliant, to kick off with as indicated by ericsbrother.  Next will be to look at the signage to see if it creates a contract, probably doesn't.


We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

 

The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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Ok, big sign at entrance isnt a contract, it is an "invitation to treat. the other signs that could be contract say uou owe them £100 of you breach any of the conditions but them dont actually list any contractual terms. Even the 20 minute bit is ambiguous as you are allowed to renegotiate those terms with the shopkeepers and the ANPR wont know about or overrule the conversation you had with anyone in the shops even if you didnt actually have one of the supposes permits.

 

As already said, the NTK is just garbage and doesnt fulfil any of the requirements to create ANY liability, let alone a keeper liability..

 

I wouldnt be appealing this at all, CEL dont give a stuff and how they are still members of the BPA eludes me. Trading Standarsd took them to court but fouled up on the service of their paperwork so CEL got off a criminal charge and that is why they arent actually keen on going to a court hearing even though they are keen on starting a fight they cant win, tey hope to bully you into paying up, which is an abuse of the court process that has been commented on by judges but again the MoJ havent come down on it.

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Hi everyone, 

 

I’ve been ignoring correspondence from CEL but now these have been arriving. 

 

Any advice? I’m very tempted to pay as its stressing me out so much! 

 

Thank you 

 

ZZPS Letter.pdf

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standard ThreatOgram from powerless DCA, others will comment further.


We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

 

The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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read up on dca's and you will soon stop sweating. they cant do anything becasue they dont own the debt, have no agency and generally dont have the legal permissions to collect money anyway so if the debt was real and you paid them instead of the debtor you will still owe the money if they do a runner!

now ask yourself another question- as CEL have used para 9 of the POFA to demand money they cnat ask for more than the amoutn specified in the NTK so where does the sum of £170 come from? anser- they made it up in the hope that you dont know the law and then they earn a few quid for telling lies. They make it less than £200 or people wouldnt pay them at all. the idea is that people who dont know better pay up before the amount goes up again and they thern think that dca's are bailiffs and they will end up having their furniture removed.

 

On britain's Parking hell last night there was these old codgers who got caught out and they were thinking of selling their belongings to apy the parking co to avoid prison! why on eathn did they think that possible, this isnt the 1800's but it shows the fears these bandits like to keep going so they make their money

 

Ignore them and if you get worried ignore that feeling as well

Edited by ericsbrother

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I have no idea what Maximum Parking Terms Apply actually means. Probably meant as a threat.

And don't worry about ZZZZZZZ despite their assurance that they are a  professional debt collection agency no one will  believe them despite the number of times they may try to convince. The truth is they are unregulated shysters with illusions of grandeur. They believe they are Judge, Jury and executioner without a shred of evidence except the word of CEL since they appear to think you owe money. There is no debt, there is no £170 owed though there may be Illegal Collections involved.

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Hi all, 

 

Me again! Just received this now too - they’re coming a lot more frequently. 

 

I did Google them and inclined not to pay still but any advice would be much appreciated. Don’t want my boyfriend getting bad credit because of me! 

 

Cheers 

 

 

ZZPS Pretending to be QDR.pdf

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is it a letter of claim from a solicitor?

if not as post 16


..

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nothing to worry about at all, it is a threatogram dressed up as a worthless piece of paper. Note they say their client is ZZPS and who are they to tell anyone anything? they are just paid letter writers so if they are the client.

They will recommend something. Well I recommend that you dont whistle whilst eating custard. Now do you owe my cat £170 for saying that? Legally it has the same weight.

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I’m guessing this one isn’t worthless? 

 

£267 lighter this Christmas 😢

 

claimform.pdf

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No its a Claimform alreight. mow follow the advice on this Sticky, then the team can see what they are claiming for, and go back through your thread to see what will be best defence.  First thing is not to panic.

 

 


We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

 

The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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Thanks for the quick reply Brassnecked. Filled out the information below - i've also attached the original PCN and this Claim Form that i've just received.

 

Thanks again.

 

Name of the Claimant:Civil Enforcement LTD

 

Claimants Solicitors:Doesn't say on this Claim Form (apart from it's from 'S Wilson Civil Enforcement LTD - Claimants Legal Representative). Previously had correspondence from QDR.

 

Date of issue –20 DEC 2019

 

Date to acknowledge)  6TH JAN

 

defence filing date = 23rd JAN 

 

What is the claim for – 

Outstanding debts and damages

Date------Description------Amount--ue Date

12/4/19 Ref [ref no is here] 182.00 12/04/19

 

Total due - 182.00

(Red:www.ce-service.co.uk or tel:0115 8225020)

The Claimant claims the sum of 192.01 for Outstanding debt and damages including 10.01 interest persuant to S.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 Rate 8.00% pa from dates above to- 19/12/19 Same rate to Judgment or (sooner) payment Daily rate to jdgment- 0.04

 

Total debt and interest due- 192.01

 

I will provide the defendant with separate detailed particulars within 14 days after service of the claim form.

 

What is the value of the claim? £267.01

 

Has the claim been issued by the Private parking Company or was the PCN assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim ?Issued by Civil Enforcement LTD. (have previously had letters from QDR and ZZPS though)

 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment?Sorry to make this confusing,  I did receive a letters from both QDR and ZZPS but then received one again from CEL before the Claim Form came through. It has been all over the place.

 

 

I'm not sure if it's of importance too but we received a Letter Before Action (also attached) - the Contravention was for 'parking in breach of Terms & Conditions on Notice'.

 

Also all of these letters are addressed to my husband (was boyfriend at the time) - who was the registered keeper at the time (we've since got a new car) but it was me that was driving. 

 

Thanks again

CEL - Letter before action.pdf

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we still don't appear to have the photo's of the two pix they use for their timings on the original ntk.

can you goto their website? 


..

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Hi @dx100uk

 

I've never received photos of the car entering or leaving the car park.

 

 

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