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nssimpson

CEL ANPR PCN Claimform - Overstay - Portwood Court in Stockport ***Claim Discontinued***

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That's annoying considering the circumstances and the fact that it's not exactly a case that needed to be heard in Feb.

 

If I can't attend will I lose the case (assuming CEL attend Stockport County Court)?

Obviously I won't be going if my better half is giving birth.

 

I'll read through this forum over the weekend to make sure I understand what exactly I have to send to the court in addition to the defence I've already sent.

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witness statement 14 days before the hearing date I will guess.

 

but check the N157? properly

it might say a different date for WS submission

and

it will also state a date by which the claimant must pay their fee?

 

can we have those please so we can remind you in case:lol: you get all mixed up again and miss something...:yo:


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Hi dx100uk, haven't they already paid quite a lot to get the case to this stage?

At this point it surprises me that they wouldn't just pay the £35 just to inconvenience the defendant if nothing else.

 

I think it said that the claimant had to pay £35 around mid December but I'll be able to confirm once I get home.

 

I've read your advice to other forum members where you say to wait until after this date to see if they pay by contacting the court.

 

If they pay then I need to prepare my WS.

 

Keeping fingers crossed.

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as long as it doesn't say a date for WS exchange other than the std 14 days before hearing ....yes.

no harm in researching WS contents/format though.

 


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I would alsways prepare your side of things anyway, they may well try and convince you they are dropping it and continue hoping you handt noticed or they may drop the matter and not tell you.

 

When the clock has run down it will be worth asking the court whether they will use their management powers to stay or dismiss the claim without refernce to the claimant

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Hi All, Well I contacted Stockport County Court and explained that in my questionnaire I asked for the hearing not to be in Feb because my partner was due to give birth around then. The nice lady agreed to postpone it until March so I'm now waiting for new instructions.

 

The existing N157 notice gives the following dates:

 

Hearing Date: 17th Feb

The Claimant must pay the £25 hearing fee by the 20th Jan.

Both parties must file a witness statement by the 9th Dec

 

This means I can't wait to see if the fee is paid before filing a witness statement. So CEL will be able to decide whether to pay the hearing fee based on my witness statement.

 

Do you think these dates will change? I assume that regardless I'll need to get my witness statement filed before CEL has to pay the hearing fee.

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Stick to the dates...only the hearing date will change


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Hearing adjourned until 23rd March. Looks like the other dates remain the same so I'm gonna have to send in a witness statement regardless of whether CEL plan to continue with this.

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I'm sorry to ask but is there a template witness statement or any examples somewhere on here that I can use? Not exactly sure where to begin?

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Just reread your own thread from the beginning and list all the points Caggers have made about CEL's case being pants.  Then post it up and constructive criticism will be made, suggestions to move bits around, etc.

 

Stuff like you believe they have no locus standi and in fact have ignored your CPR request.

 

They state the charge is a penalty.

 

They have no planning permission for their signs which is a criminal offence and makes it impossible to enter into a contract with them.

 

They have abused the small claims procedure by adding additional costs that are not allowed.

 

They are suing the wrong person, they should be suing the driver.  They have not followed the POFA to transfer liability to the keeper.

 

Etc.

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Thank you, I'll put something together over the next few days and post. 👍

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Well I really don't know where to begin with this. I've spent hours trying to figure out what to put but it seems that every witness statement is different depending on the exact circumstances. I know that I shouldn't put all my cards on the table but I don't know which ones to hold back and which ones to get rid of altogether.

 

This is what I have so far...

 

I, XXX of XXX am the Defendant in this case. I make this statement in support of my defence again the Claimant, Civil Enforcement Ltd.

 

1.       CEL make it impossible for defendants to discuss PCNs with them or their representatives:

 

           A.       On the 26th Nov 2018 I received an unexpected PCN from CEL. I immediately went onto their “Contact Us” page, which stated that operators are available to speak to during normal working hours (see appendix 1 - THIS IS JUST A COPY OF THEIR CONTACT US PAGE). I tried calling numerous times to discuss the matter but regardless of what time of day I called there was no option to speak to an operator, only an automated system to pay.

 

           B.       When I received a debt collection notice from ZZPS (see appendix 2 - COPY OF LETTER) the letter instructed me to call them on 01932918916.


                     14th Mar 2019 - I tried calling several times and have a call recording I can play for the court to show that it was impossible to speak to anyone. Instead I was played the following automated message: “The party’s call minder belonging to 01473478289 is full and can’t accept any more messages. Please try again later. Goodbye.” The call then hangs up.

                    19th Mar 2019 - I tried again at several times throughout the day and this time a message played thanking me for calling ZZPS and asked me to hold. It then rang for 2 minutes before repeating the same message. This happened over and over again. I have two recording that I can play for the court showing this to be true, one that lasted 9 minutes and the other for 10 minutes before each time giving up.

           It appears that there is some unreliable call routing in place meaning that I had no way of contacting CEL or ZZPS as they both advise.

 

2.       CEL failed to produce any of the documentation I requested in writing, which obstructed me from making a decision on how to proceed with this case:
 

          A.       On the 3rd Dec 2018 I completed CEL’s online Appeals Form (see appendix 3 for a saved copy of the submitted form - ATTACHED TO THIS POST). CEL responded (see appendix 4) but failed to answer any question, stating that GDPR prevented them from doing so.

 

          B.       On the 14th Aug 2019 I sent them a CPR 31.14 Request letter (see appendix 5). CEL did not respond.

 

3.       According to Schedule 3, Part 1, Class 13 of The Town and Country Planning (Control of Advertisements) (England) Regulations 2007, only signage older than 10 years is deemed as having consent granted.

 

CEL has changed its signage 3 times within the last 10 years, which can be clearly seen from Google Street mapping images:

           A.       2018 – Present: Signage stating 1hr free parking (appendix 6a)

           B.       2012 – 2017: Signage stating 3hr free parking (appendix 6b)

           C.       2008 – 2012: Signage stating 2hr free parking (appendix 6c)

 

CEL’s current signage was installed at some point during 2018 but according to Stockport Council’s online planning applications search system no planning permission was granted. I believe the signage has therefore been erected illegally, which makes it impossible to enter into a contract with them.

 

4.       CEL has also added legal costs to their claim, which is not recoverable within the Small Claims Court.

 

I believe that the following facts stated in this Witness Statement are true.

 

Have I made a complete balls-up of this or am I going in the right direction? I thought it might work in my favour if I try to show the judge that I made every reasonable effort to resolve this without going to court but CEL purposely make appeals as difficult as possible. Perhaps none of that matters. Not sure. 🤔

Appeal Text.pdf

Edited by nssimpson
Tabbing to help readability

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so 113 posts wasted then ...

 

where is the results of your research into if they have planning permission for the signs/cameras?

where is the result of your enquiries if they have a contract with the landowner's to issue court claims on their behalf in their own name.

 

you are not writing a calendar of events in a WS, you are firming up the defence points you made in your initial defence by providing further clarity and the results of your suspicions.

 

 


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the defence you filed:

 

I (NAME) am the defendant in this matter and at the time of the alleged violation was the registered keeper of vehicle CAR REG. The claimant has failed to prove keeper liability and I deny any liability for the entirety of the claim.

 

The claimant has ignored the defendant's CPR request. They have failed to produce a contract with the landowner that assigns them the right to enter into contracts with the public and to make civil claims in their own name, so the defendant does not believe that the claimant has locus standi in this matter.

 

The defendant also believes that no planning consent was obtained for the current signage installed in 2018 as required under the Town and Country Planning Act 2007. This means the signage is there illegally and it is not possible to enter into a criminal compact.

 

In any case there was no contract between the claimant and the defendant so no cause for action.


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Okay, let me start again. In terms of planning, is it not enough to say they don't have it since it's not shown on the council site? If not, if I ring Stockport planning would they put in writing that there's no planning?

 

I could contact the land registry to find out who the land owner is. If I contact them directly maybe they'll tell me if they have a contract in place. If they ignore my request too then should I be doing other things to find this out?

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both of which should have been done almost a year ago......

 

you don't need written confirmation..

 

you can search the land registry yourself for £3

just ensure you ONLY use the .gov.uk LR site

others will rip you off for +£50


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this place is extremely near the infamous peel centre...its not that been renamed by the ppc to get around the 1000's of failed claims there is it?

dx


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Hi dx100uk, well I've paid £3 for the land registry info and it appears that M&F Finance (Ireland) Ltd is the registered owner. I might try getting in touch with them this afternoon.

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I've called Stockport planning and was told that they can only see the same applications that I can see online. There are no applications for car park signage.

 

The lady advised me to email enforcement.dc@stockport.gov.uk so they can send someone out to investigate whether illegal signage has been erected. I'll do that this afternoon.

 

Is there anything else I should do to build up my case?

 

Thx 

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and the cameras!!

 

as for M&F

don't give the game away upon why....

just say you have a possible impending legal matter that you need to investigate but need to know who signed up CEL to manage the car park and do they have M&F legal permission for this contract to be entered into upon M&F's behalf. and if it goes well see if the contract with CEL has been paid for THIS FINANCIAL YEAR by whomever.  I seriously doubt they will know anything about it at all.

 

 


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Email sent to Stockport. Hopefully they'll carry out an investigation and come back to me before my WS has to be in.

 

I'm wondering whether to ring or email M&F. What do you think?

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pers i'd ring them

can't hurt you at all.


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I rung Stockport enforcement and spoke to a very helpful young lady. Apparently sometimes replacement signage is deemed as having consent even if it's been up less than 10 years if the same poles are used. She hopes to have an initial investigation carried out within the next 10 days so fingers crossed.

 

Now in terms of M & F Finance (Ireland) Ltd, it appears that they have just appointed receivers. I can't find any contact number for them so not sure what to do.

 

(I've attached the title to this post so others can download it without paying.)

RegisterMAN24187.pdf

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I've just rung the CRO in Ireland. The chap said he's never seen so many receivers appointed for one business but each one has been closed so the company is called as trading normally.

 

I guess my only option is to send them a letter since there's no phone number. Not sure they will answer though. What happens to my case if I can't prove whether or not CEL has a contract?

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