American Express withdrew my Credit Limit

[zubo]

All

 

I had a limit of £3100, balance of £2900. Cancelled a DD because I switched banks, probably late over 4 months but always paid my minimum payment, then got a letter saying that they had reviewed my account and decided to cancel it.

 

I hadnt been using it for a few months forgot the letter, checked online saw it said that I had £219 to spend, tried to use the card and got declined.

 

This is obscene - Amex say its within their TCs to take that action. I am inclined to say that I have reviewed their action and consider that they have broken the contractual agreement by NOT providing me with credit and consequently I will not accept any further 'borrowing' interest and will repay the balance at a realistic rate.

 

Can anyone offer some sensible attacking options - they really need to be taught a lesson in customer care.

 

thanks

[zubo]

Hi All

 

Seems like nobody has any comments. Oh well - it is uncharted territory.

 

I have a few ideas - anybody comment on them please.

 

First, send them the standard DPA letter which requires 6 years statements + any manual interventions - I intend to query in detail their decision to withdraw my credit line. This I can with the DPA.

 

Second I have been reading in another thread that the credit card companies must supply you with a signed Credit Agreement, if they cannot then it is not enforceable.

 

I will tell Amex that the account is in dispute and I will stop payments until I can assure myself that the agreement complies with the law and that their decision to withdraw my credit is not unlawful.

 

Comments?

 

thanks

 

george

[Innocenti]

I cant really help on the legalities of it all but credit card companies seem to be dropping their credit limits with lots of people. Some people have had their cards cancelled like yours.

[TUTTSI]

Hi, my husband also had his credit withdrawn from AMEX this week they say that they have reviewed his credit with experian. His account was totally in order,

What are you going to to do about it!

Regards

DS

[zubo]

Ok so here is my attack - letters could be better worded:

 

I attempted to use my Amex card about a month ago and was surprised and embarrassed when it was declined. A phone call later to your help desk was equally distressing – to be told that you had cancelled my account.

I was informed that you had written to me terminating the account because you had reviewed my account and decided that my circumstances no longer warranted me having an account.

I can understand that card companies need to review the credit limit being offered from time to time but this is usually done in a careful manner – not suddenly removing the entire limit.

I am of the opinion that you have not dealt with my account in a lawful manner, and, whilst I have every intention of always paying my debts, in this particular instance I am placing the entire account in dispute pending the outcome of my investigations.

Your attention is drawn to the two attached letters which will form the basis of my investigation. You are requested to fully comply with the information requested so that I can complete my investigation and resume payments on the account.

 

Letter 2

 

Please supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my account for the last six years. Alternatively, a complete set of bank statements for that period will be acceptable.

Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my financial business with you.

If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response.

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply. Furthermore, if I discover that you have levied disproportionate penalties and charges against me, then I shall be reclaiming them, and also reclaiming the enclosed £10 DPA subject access request fee.

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which hitherto you have found to be acceptable.

 

Letter 3

 

With reference to the above credit card account, would you please send me a true copy of this credit agreement.

 

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77−79), I am entitled to receive a copy of my credit agreement on request and this should be supplied within 12 working days. I enclose a payment of £1.00 which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act.

 

Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities.

 

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defense to any court claim that is issued.

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Lets wait and see

 

[TUTTSI]

Ok so here is my attack - letters could be better worded:

 

I attempted to use my Amex card about a month ago and was surprised and embarrassed when it was declined. A phone call later to your help desk was equally distressing – to be told that you had cancelled my account.

I was informed that you had written to me terminating the account because you had reviewed my account and decided that my circumstances no longer warranted me having an account.

I can understand that card companies need to review the credit limit being offered from time to time but this is usually done in a careful manner – not suddenly removing the entire limit.

I am of the opinion that you have not dealt with my account in a lawful manner, and, whilst I have every intention of always paying my debts, in this particular instance I am placing the entire account in dispute pending the outcome of my investigations.

Your attention is drawn to the two attached letters which will form the basis of my investigation. You are requested to fully comply with the information requested so that I can complete my investigation and resume payments on the account.

 

Letter 2

 

Please supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my account for the last six years. Alternatively, a complete set of bank statements for that period will be acceptable.

 

Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my financial business with you.

 

If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response.

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply. Furthermore, if I discover that you have levied disproportionate penalties and charges against me, then I shall be reclaiming them, and also reclaiming the enclosed £10 Data Protection Act subject access request fee.

 

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which hitherto you have found to be acceptable.

 

Letter 3

 

With reference to the above credit card account, would you please send me a true copy of this credit agreement.

 

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77−79), I am entitled to receive a copy of my credit agreement on request and this should be supplied within 12 working days. I enclose a payment of £1.00 which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act.

 

Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities.

 

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defense to any court claim that is issued.

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Lets wait and see

 

Hi Zubo

Good Luck with these letters, I will pass it on to my husband and get him to do something similar. When did you send the letters!

Keep me informed!

Thanks

DS

[zubo]

posted Friday - so keep them busy over Xmas.

 

Must remember to knock Xmas day, Boxing Day and New Year off the time allowed.

[zubo]

Amex sent me a nice letter laying out how they were going to investigate my complaint and that it may take a few days to write back to me.

 

That was about 10 days ago.

 

Since then their people phoned to chase payment - I simply repeated that I had put the account in dispute and had had a response saying it was going to be investigated so - go away. Allegedly he marked my account not to chase.

 

lets see.

[TUTTSI]

Hi Zubo

AMEX always take their time in answering and with the holiday period I think they will respond to you in the New Year. at least they have marked your file as account in dispute. Should you not still make the minimum payment anyway.

HAPPY NEW YEAR

regards

DS

[nevos]

Hi Zubo, do you know the correct address for Amex to send an SAR to please?

[hagenuk]

This one worked for me.

 

American Express

Amex House

Edward Street

Brighton

BN88 1AH

[nevos]

Hi There, many thanks for this and so quick

[zubo]

beat me to it... thats the one...

[zubo]

All

 

Had a beautiful letter from Amex, had me in tears...

 

Apologised in opening paragraph about their staff misinforming me that I could use my card after making a debit card payment. Second paragraph explained all the factors they use to reveiew my account. Third paragraph pinpointed my fluctuating Credit Reference agency credit, late payments to others etc. Acknowledged there were only two late payments to Amex - Sept and of course now December. This lead to their decision not to lend to me.

 

and completely ignored the two letters requesting the SAR within 40 days and the other requesting the signed Credit Agreement. I also had an Amex person chasing the overdue payment. Asked me for proof of of who I was - I declined to give them this and suggested that they read the notes on the account.

 

Now... there letter finishes with a standard paragraph boxed after the signatory:

 

This is our initial response. In the unlikely event that you remain dissatisfied with our initial response please contact... we will investigate further. A note about how to complain to that useless Financial Ombudsman and finally finished with If we do not hear from you within eight weeks we will consider the complaint closed.

 

I am soooooooooo tempted to not respond and wait.

 

I have requested in my two other letters that they comply with the law and provide me with my information. If they are stupid enough to ignore the request then I should let them hang themselves. After all the one I really want them to fail on is provide me with a true signed copy of my credit agreement. Failure to do so means the debt is unenforceable - NOT that you do not owe it - just that they cannot enforce collection, so you could pay back a silver coin of the realm per month - and not be defaulted.

 

Comments please?

 

thanks

 

george

[TUTTSI]

All

 

Had a beautiful letter from Amex, had me in tears...

 

Apologised in opening paragraph about their staff misinforming me that I could use my card after making a debit card payment. Second paragraph explained all the factors they use to reveiew my account. Third paragraph pinpointed my fluctuating Credit Reference agency credit, late payments to others etc. Acknowledged there were only two late payments to Amex - Sept and of course now December. This lead to their decision not to lend to me.

 

and completely ignored the two letters requesting the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) within 40 days and the other requesting the signed Credit Agreement. I also had an Amex person chasing the overdue payment. Asked me for proof of of who I was - I declined to give them this and suggested that they read the notes on the account.

 

Now... there letter finishes with a standard paragraph boxed after the signatory:

 

This is our initial response. In the unlikely event that you remain dissatisfied with our initial response please contact... we will investigate further. A note about how to complain to that useless Financial Ombudsman and finally finished with If we do not hear from you within eight weeks we will consider the complaint closed.

 

I am soooooooooo tempted to not respond and wait.

 

I have requested in my two other letters that they comply with the law and provide me with my information. If they are stupid enough to ignore the request then I should let them hang themselves. After all the one I really want them to fail on is provide me with a true signed copy of my credit agreement. Failure to do so means the debt is unenforceable - NOT that you do not owe it - just that they cannot enforce collection, so you could pay back a silver coin of the realm per month - and not be defaulted.

 

Comments please?

 

thanks

 

george

 

Go for it George, they need puting in their place. Keep us posted

Good Luck

DS

[zubo]

I'm in fighting mood today - must have posted about 10 updates in these threads. Amex seem to think they answered my question and chase money - when they phone I keep declining to give them any security info - really ****es them off - they cannot talk to you about anything.

 

Anyway - sending them this:

 

 

Thank you for your letter of the 4th January 2007.

May I remind you that I have sent you three letters – the first was a letter of complaint which your letter of the 4th attempts to answer.

However the other two other letters need a response too. Your attention is specifically drawn to the timelines defined within the Acts and which attract penalties should they be missed.

The information requested within these two letters will form the basis of my investigation and until I have completed this the account is still in dispute.

Despite the account being in dispute and your staff aware of my ongoing investigation I receive regular and annoying phone calls from them.

Please cease and desist.

Be aware that under the Telegraphic Act, it is an offence to attempt a Telephonic communication once I have initiated a request not to do so. Any continuing attempt will be duly reported.

 

Yours Sincerely

[zubo]

Jesus these people are really pushy. I had a guy earlier this morning who was chasing money @ 10:00am - I told him to read the notes and reply to my letters. Just had another guy who seemed more mature and polite and I condescended and give him my year of birth.

 

he wanted to know why I hadnt made a payment and said he did not know what my letters contained - I told him that when I finished checking over the legality of information within the letters I would resume payments.

He wanted to know if I was querying the money I owed - I told him that I was putting the account in dispute until such time that I had the information requested.

 

He got a bit shirty and said that I was 45 days overdue and that he was issuing me with a (forgot what its called) Notice that it would be lodged for 6 years and affect my credit rating. I told him that he couldn't while the account was in dispute and to do so was an offence. He said that he could and would do so. I told him that I would report him for the offence - he said carry on.

 

So.... am I right? is he committing an offence?? if so, apart from their CUSTOMER Relations who do I complain too??

 

thanks

[hagenuk]

It's not an offence, but it is a breach of section 13.6 of the Banking Code.

[zubo]

thanks for that pointer:

 

We may give information to credit reference agencies

about the personal debts you owe us if:

• you have fallen behind with your payments;

• the amount owed is not in dispute; and

• you have not made proposals we are satisfied with

for repaying your debt, following our formal demand.

 

So - my defence then is that the amount owed is in dispute.

[Enron]

Yep, sounds like they are saying that they`ll put a Default Notice on your credit record. They have to also inform you of this in writing.

 

However as you have pointed out your account IS in dispute with them which would breach the banking code.

 

If you have more hassle relating to this, find out who the top guy is in the UK - they probably have investor information and write to him. Have found that always going to the top seems to carry some weight when your enquiry complaint comes back down the chain.

[Innocenti]

Yes write to the top person. I was being messed about with my car insurance. I wrote to the top person, got a very nice phone call from the lady incharge of Customer Relations, got £50 compensation and they left me alone! It certainly pays to write to the top person by recorded delivery then follow up with a phone call a few days later demanding to speak to them.

[Enron]

Had a look for it but have been unsuccessful in finding the details of the head guy in the UK, best bet would be to phone up and ask.

 

Correction - have found this which might be useful:

 

American Express Appointes Laurel Powers-Freeling to Lead U.K. Consumer Card Business

 

Let me know how you get on.

[zubo]

Perfect Timing.

 

No surprise that I received my Default Notice during the week although the account is in dispute.

Today I received my package responding to my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) - quick inspection shows £75 of late fees on first 3 statements I looked at - so hey presto the account is really in dispute.

 

Interesting - no response to my request for a true and signed copy of my Credit Agreement.

 

I'll post my letter in a while to top honcho and see how good Laurel is .....

[Enron]

Hopefully writing to the top person should get something done.

 

Remember an instance with NTL, where I had cancelled my dialup internet in writing.

 

Though all was OK, then three months later I have a debt collection agency get in touch to say that I owed them £45.

 

After lots of wrangling and argueing with NTL that I had cancelled the service I was getting nowhere.

 

Wrote to the man at the top of NTL, case was transferred down to customer services (probably carried some weight as it came down from the top) and eventually they found my cancellation letter.

 

Likewise if you write to the top person think you`ll find things happen faster, just be polite, outline your case, and remark that they have broke the banking code in issueing a default on your credit record.

 

And if that doesn't work step two inform them that you'll be contacting the media..... as your case doesn't exactly put Amex in a favourable light.

 

Might be wise to contact the Financial Ombudsman now as well, as Amex have clearly broke the banking code:

 

Financial Ombudsman Service

[TUTTSI]

Hi Zubo

Just to update you, my husband as you may recall had his account withdrawn like you. He put in a MCOL on his old account with AMEX and they have now paid up in full. When he spoke with the girl who sorted out his payment she said she would try and get his account up and running again. Just waiting for for her to get back to him on this point, if he does not get a favourable response he will write to the same person as you did.

You say they have issued a default notice, have you rang them up and told them that there is a dispute on the account. Anyway, I am sure the top man will pass it on to one of the team to deal with but I reckon they will deal with it fairly quickly. In the meantime, I think, you should try and make a payment to keep it your account in order.

Regards

DS