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roger456

Lowell claimform - Lloyds Bank o/d debt

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Hi all, I'm after some for a claim I received today.

 

Just a few bits of info before the POC that might be relevant.

 

The original account was opened in the 90s with an overdraft but I changed it to a different account type around 2001. 

 

They sent a PAP letter which I think was all correct early this year (need to get it out of the loft after this heatwave) but unfortunately I didn't do my research and replied with a CCA using their form, I didn't sign it or acknowledge the debt. They replied saying they were compiling a response and that the case was on hold.

 

In June they sent a letter stating:

Please find the enclosed documentation provided by the original creditor.

Please be advised that the matter in question relates to a current account.

Accounts of this nature are not governed by the provisions of the CCA 1974.

Therefore there is no statutory requirement to complete and sign any such 'agreement' in order to obtain an account of this nature.

Therefore, if no signed contract ever existed it cannot be provided.

 

It also included print outs of statements (no Lloyds heading) from 2013 to 2014. 

 

They show last payment in Feb '14 and account closed June that year.

 

POC

 

Lowell

 

Issue date is 19/07

 

What is the claim for – the reason they have issued the claim?

 

1) The defendant entered into an agreement for a Lloyds (Current Account) account under reference xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ('the agreement').

 

2) The defendant failed to maintain the required payments and the service was terminated.

 

3) The agreement was later assigned to the claimant on xx/xx/16 by Lloyds Bank PLC and notice given to the defendant.

 

4) Despite repeated requests for payment, the sum of £23xx.xx remains due and outstanding .

 

And the claimant claims

a) The said sum of £23xx.xx

b) interest pursuant to s69 County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum from the date of assignment to the date of issue accruing at a daily rate of £0.xxx, but limited to one year, being £xxx.xx

c) Costs.

 

What is the total value of the claim? £26xx.xx

 

Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC ( Pre Action Protocol) ? Yes but will confirm it was correct 

 

Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? Yes

 

Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? No 


Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? O/d 

 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? Before, 199x 

 

Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? In branch

 

Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/ Equifax /Etc...) ? No

 

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Assigned

 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? Probably, will check and confirm

 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? Probably, will check and confirm

 

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Default sums” – at least once a year ? Probably, have some

 

Why did you cease payments? Low income and mental health issues led to financial difficulty, also not happy with the fees that were added

 

What was the date of your last payment? Feb 2014

 

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No

 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? No

 

 

 

I will send a CPR 31.14 form to them by 1st class recorded tomorrow.

 

I have 4 credit card debts and neither those or this debt show on my credit file, all have similar last payment date. Lowell had 2 of these and recently transferred them to other companies. I was hoping to improve my credit and was surprised to see no defaults or late payments showing up when I checked it today so would be open to settling this overdraft debt if I could be sure it wouldn't lead to the other DMAs starting court action for the other debts. I'm still on a low income, just not as low as before. 

 

I initially intend to dispute just wondered if there was anything different to the standard responses due to how long ago the agreement was first taken out.

 

I'd be very grateful for any help received.

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When did you make the last payment on this account,  Feb 2014 this is important, did you acknowledge the debt to Lowlifes after that date?

 


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The last payment was 3rd Feb 2014 and no acknowledgment after that.

 

On the MCOL website under AOS do you need to include any additional contact details like email address or will you be able to see everything online anyway?

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pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform.
.
 register as an individual
 note the long gateway number given
 then log in
.
 select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.
.
 then using the details required from the claimform
.
 defend all
 leave jurisdiction unticked.
 click thru to the end
 confirm and exit MCOL.


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Yes I've got through there and that all makes sense but one of the sections offers you the option of including additional contact details. It doesn't seem to be compulsory but I was wondering if there was an advantage in giving them an email address or if these details also get passed to the claimant?

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do we say do that?

NO so don't!!


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Fair point. 

I also sent a CPR request last week which they signed for on Tuesday so will start to work on my defence

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Hi was wondering if anyone could give any thoughts to my intended defence, I worry that it seems a bit light.

 

I've uploaded my CPR request and their response. Please note this only included (apart from the reply letter) one other sheet of paper which had the scanned pages 3 and 4 of the pdf on each side.

 

My claim was dated 19/07 so I believe I have until Tuesday at 4pm to file my defence.

 

Particulars of claim for reference only.

 

1) The defendant entered into an agreement for a Lloyds (Current Account) account under reference xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ('the agreement').

 

2) The defendant failed to maintain the required payments and the service was terminated.

 

3) The agreement was later assigned to the claimant on xx/xx/16 by Lloyds Bank PLC and notice given to the defendant.

 

4) Despite repeated requests for payment, the sum of £23xx.xx remains due and outstanding .

 

And the claimant claims

a) The said sum of £23xx.xx

b) interest pursuant to s69 County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum from the date of assignment to the date of issue accruing at a daily rate of £0.xxx, but limited to one year, being £xxx.xx

c) Costs.

 

Defence

 

The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are woefully vague and fails to comply with CPR 16.4 failing to state a concise statement of the facts on which the claimant relies or reasons for actually issuing this claim.The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

1. The Claimants’ statement of case fails to give adequate information to enable me to properly assess my position with regards the claim.

 

2. I am unaware of any alleged outstanding balance owing to the agreement number referred to and if so can only result from unfair and extortionate bank charges/penalties being applied to the account. The amount claimed can only comprise of amongst others default penalties/charges levied on the account for alleged late, missed or over limit payments. The court will be aware that these charge types and the recoverability thereof have been judicially declared to be susceptible to assessments of fairness under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 The Office of Fair Trading v Abbey National PLC and others (2009). I will contend at trial that such charges are unfair in their entirety.

 

3. It is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Claimant has yet to provide a copy of the Notice of Assignment its claim relies upon.

 

4. On receipt of this claim I requested documentation by way of a CPR 31.14 request dated 2019 namely the Agreement, Termination/Demand Notice and Notice of Assignment referred to in the claimants Particulars of Claim. The Claimant has failed to comply with this request.

 

5. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

Therefore the claimant is also put to strict proof to:-.

 

(a) Provide a copy agreement/facility arrangement along with the Terms and conditions at inception, that this claim is based on.

(b) Provide a copy of the Notice served under 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974 Demand /Recall Notice and Notice of Assignment.

© Provide a breakdown of their excessive charging/fees levied to the account with justification.

(d) Show how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed.

(e) Show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.

(f) Show how they have complied with sections III & IV of Practice Direction - Pre-action Conduct.

 

 

6. By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

 

 

Any and all help is really greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance

 

Letters.pdf

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1st again why do you keep changing things before you send them

 

you've added counterclaim in to our std CPR 31:14 you sent?

why?

this opens you up to additional costs

and I hope you didnt tick counterclaim when you did AOS on mcol too?

 

also I notice you've  played with our std OD defence above too...

 

pers I would refrain from continuing to change things as they are written in the frain they are for specific reasons.

 

your defence is due by 4pm Monday [day 33]

 

here are 2 versions

you will ofcourse need to adapt them to lowells para no's and remove the NOA stuff as your docs show Lowell have complied with those.

but don't forget to mention other documents provided to date notably statements contain no proof they came from Lloyds but rather Lowells own internal data system 

 

dx

 

1. It is admitted with regards to the Defendant entering into an Agreement referred to in the Particulars of Claim ('the Agreement') with the [insert original creditor] .

 2. The defendant denies that the account exceeded the agreed overdraft limit due to overdrawing of funds but is as a result of unfair and extortionate bank charges/penalties being applied to the account.

 3. I refute the claimants claim is owed or payable. The amount claimed is comprised of amongst others default penalties/charges levied on the account for alleged late, missed or over limit payments. The court will be aware that these charge types and the recoverability thereof have been judicially declared to be susceptible to assessments of fairness under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 The Office of Fair Trading v Abbey National PLC and others (2009). I will contend at trial that such charges are unfair in their entirety.

4. It is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974. The Claimant has yet to provide a copy of the Notice of Assignment its claim relies upon.

5. The claimant is denied from added section 69 interest within the total claimed that as yet to be decided at the courts discretion.

6. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 The claimant is also put to strict proof to:-.
.
 (a) Provide a copy agreement/facility arrangement along with the Terms and conditions at inception, that this claim is based on.
 (b) Provide a copy of the Notice served under 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974 Demand /Recall Notice and Notice of Assignment.
 (c) Provide a breakdown of their excessive charging/fees levied to the account with justification.
 (d) Show how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed.
 (e) Show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.
 (f) Show how they have complied with sections III & IV of Practice Direction - Pre-action Conduct.
.
 7. On receipt of this claim I requested documentation by way of a CPR 31.14 request dated [xxxxxxx] namely the Agreement and Termination Demand Notice referred to in the claimants Particulars of Claim. The Claimant has failed to comply with this request.

 By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

 



 or 

 

 

 

Defence

 

 The Defendant contends that the particulars of the claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made

 1. It is admitted with regards to the Defendant once having had banking facilities with the original creditor Santander Bank. It is denied that I am indebted for any alleged balance claimed. 

 

 2. Paragraph 2 is denied.I am not aware or ever receiving any Notice of Assignment pursuant to the Law and Property Act 1925. It is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer crediticon Act 1974. The Claimant has yet to provide a copy of the Notice of Assignment its claim relies upon. 

 

 3. Paragraph 3 is denied. The Original Creditor has never served notice pursuant to 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974

 Any alleged amount claimed could only consist in the main of default penalties/charges levied on the account for alleged late, rejected or over limit payments. The court will be aware that these charge types and the recoverability thereof have been judicially declared to be susceptible to assessments of fairness under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 The Office of Fair Trading v Abbey National PLC and others (2009). I will contend at trial that such charges are unfair in their entirety.

 

 4. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 The claimant is also put to strict proof to:-.

 

 (a) Provide a copy agreement/overdraft facility arrangement along with the Terms and conditions at inception that this claim is based on.
 (b) Provide a copy of the Notice served under 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974 Demand /Recall Notice and Notice of Assignment.
 (c) Provide a breakdown of all excessive charging/fees and show how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed. 
 (d) Show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.
 (e) Show how they have complied with sections III & IV of Practice Direction - Pre-action Conduct.

 

 5. On receipt of this claim I requested documentation by way of a CPR 31.14 request dated April 2015 namely the Agreement and Termination Demand Notice referred to in the claimants Particulars of Claim. The Claimant has failed to comply with this request. 

 

 By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief. 


Regards

Andy
 

 


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I thought I had used the standard one unfortunately, I didn't change it to that.

 

I followed this sticky post

 

You have received a Claim - What you need to do. **UPDATED Jan 2019**

and then clicked on Request 2 - Current Accounts

 

which led to this post:

 

LEGAL : CPR 31.14 Request when Claim is being made for a Current Account

 

The download in there included the bit about the counter claim but I didn't tick counter claim on MCOL.

 

 

Is the NOA acceptable given that it doesn't seem to have come from Lloyds? The copy they sent has Lowell information on the reverse of the sheet.

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yes sorry I truly didn't know that was there and p'haps took it outside of what it might actually mean..counter claim [the allegations not issue counterclaim ]

 

the NOA [from the OC] is quite legally allowed to be sent by the debt buyer even using their letterhead]

 

however you can ofcourse question its authenticity, but on its own, it of little worth.

 

dx

 


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

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No problem at all, thanks for your help with this

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