VCS PCN claimform - St Marys Gate, Sheffield,

[Legggy]

Hi all,

 

I had a PCN from VCS for overstaying at the St Mary's Gate Retail Park in Sheffield. I had dropped my family off and left within minutes. Came back to pick them up later and VCS are trying to make it out that I stayed there the whole time. The Contravention date was 05/01/19 and the date they issued/posted their NTK was 21/02/19. 

Unfortunately I appealed via myparkingcharge.co.uk with the following ;

 

"13/03/2019

You issued me with a parking charge notice dated 21/02/2019 which I received on 09/03/2019 but I believe it was unfairly / unlawfully / illegally issued. I will not be paying your demand for payment for the following reasons: The alleged contravention did not occur

Quite simply, the alleged contravention never took place as the car was used to drop people off and then later used to pick people up so the vehicle was not parked continuously as alleged.

 The notice to keeper is incorrect
The Notice to Keeper failed to meet the obligations of Schedule 4 of the POFA Act 2012.

 If you choose to pursue me please be aware that I will not enter into any correspondence and this will be the only letter you will receive from me until you answer the specific points raised in my letter. Yours faithfully, "

 

I will attach their responses along with the NTK to Letter before claim.

 

Please advise on my best course of action.

 

 

vcs_St_Marys_Gate_Retail_Sheffield_NtK_to_LetterB4Claim-min.pdf Appeal responses St Marys Gate Sheffield.pdf

[honeybee13]

Hi.

 

Could you have a read of the forum sticky and copy and paste the questions together with your answers onto this thread please. It will help the guys to advise you.

 

We have another thread here about the same car park that you might like to have a look for.

 

HB

 

 

 

[lookinforinfo]

They are quite right they didn't mention POFA.

But they did demand that thy needed the name of the driver if you weren't.

 

I expect you revealed when you appealed that you were the driver.

That means that they do not have to rely on POFA.

However there are many cases of double dipping that these low lifes lose in Court.

 

There is one way perhaps to prove where you were by using your phone.

Go to Settings-Privacy-Location Services-System services-Significant locations-then History that shows where you have been..

[Legggy]

In the wording of my appeal above I didn't think I gave myself away as the driver? 

 

Regarding POFA I thought their request was over 14 days hence out of time? 

 

I checked location history in Google maps timeline (don't have an iPhone) and for the date in question it only starts at 1813 but the Entry and alleged exit was 1415 and 1621 respectively. 

[ericsbrother]

so can you stae where you were in the meanwhile? ie any witnesses, shop receipts etc?

 

It is for VCS to prove that you were there the whole time but despite themsaying they have looked into this they wont produce a shred of evidence of this as that would give away the fact their system is pants and not fit for purpose and also they are greedy.

 

It will be too late to get other CCTV evidence from council etc but lets say you were there for 5-10 minutes each time. You should demand to see all of their data for those times and not just a log of the ANPR but the actual camera footage when it comes to it. they wont be agreeing to this but teh a decent judge will chuck their claim out without considering anything else but you also get a judge lottery so you ahve to do the legwork and get a load of other evidence.

 

You have witnesses, the peopel you dropped off and collected so if you get a court claim you put down the number of witnessess that you wish to drag along and their testimony will undoubtedly stop VCS from wanting to pay for their travel and expenses as well as yours so it will be dropped at the last knockings.

 

Work on this as though you are getting to go to court and you wont go wrong.

 

VCS dont care about the law, just bullying you into paying up so my advice is to stop corresponding with them, gather your evidence and get your friends to make notes of the event and keep all of this safe for if they do fancy trying  their luck. they will ahve to send you a peroper LBA and you can tell themwhere to go at that point.

[Legggy]

Hi and many thanks for the advice. Apologies for the delay in getting back but we had a few bereavements... 

 

I have done the AOS on MCOL today.

The Claim form was received on 07/8/19 issue date 06/08/19. (Details further below).

 

I came home and rested after dropping off my wife and 3 children as I don't like shopping so no witnesses of me being at home. I checked my bank statements and had nothing for this day so no receipts either unfortunately for any pit stops anywhere. 

 

My eldest child is now 13 so as far as witnesses go would it just be my wife as my children are too young? But then I wouldn't want them to have to go to court unless absolutely necessary as we don't need anymore stress. Plus they would be travelling with me so any expenses for travel would not be separate to mine?  

 

"You should demand to see all of their data for those times and not just a log of the ANPR but the actual camera footage when it comes to it" How?  Should I add this to the CPR 31.14 request template? 

 

Judge lottery doesn't sound promising as I am willing to challenge the simple fact that it was a drop off and pickup so unless VCS can't prove I was there the whole time how can I be asked to pay by a judge? 

 

Please advise if should amend the CPR 31.14 request by requesting actual camera footage proving I was parked there the whole time and once I have submitted that I don't know what other defence I could use when it gets to submitting my defence by the 33rd day of 07/09/19 according to my calculations?

 

Again ever grateful for your advise and support going forward.

 

 

Name of the Claimant:

Simon-Renshaw Smith

Vehicle Control Services Limited

2 Europa Court

Sheffield Business Park

Sheffield

S9 1XE

 

Claimants Solicitors:

Can't see this anywhere on claim form

 

Date of issue

06/08/2019

 

Date of issue

06/08/2019

+ 19 days ( 5 day for service + 14 days to acknowledge) = 24/08/2019

+ 14 days to submit defence = 07/09/2019 (33 days in total) 

 

 What is the claim for

The Claim is for a breach of contract for breaching the terms and conditions set on private land. The Defendant's vehicle, ****** [my registration], was identified in the St Mary's Gate Retail Park on the 05/01/2019 in breach of the advertised terms and conditions; namely parked for longer than maximum period permitted. At all material times the Defendant was the registered keeper and/or driver. The terms and conditions upon entering private land were clearly displayed at the entrance and in prominent locations. The sign was the offer and the act of entering private land was the acceptance of the offer hereby entering into a contract by conduct. The signs specifically detail the terms and conditions and the consequences of failure to comply, namely a parking charge notice will be issued, and the Defendant has failed to settle the outstanding liability. The Claimant seeks the recovery of the parking charge notice, contractual costs and interest. 

 

What is the value of the claim?

£185 =

£160 (Amount Claimed)

£25 (Court fee)

 

Has the claim been issued by the Private parking Company or was the PCN assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim?

PPC VCS has issued the claim

 

Were you aware the account had been assigned, did you receive a Notice of Assignment?

Sorry, not sure what this means.

 

[dx100uk]

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform.
.
 register as an individual
 note the long gateway number given
 then log in
.
 select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.
.
 then using the details required from the claimform
.
 defend all
 leave jurisdiction unticked.
 click thru to the end
 confirm and exit MCOL.

 get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors [if one is not listed send to the claimant]

no need to sign anything
.
you DO NOT await the return of paperwork.
you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform [1 in the count]

[ericsbrother]

then you have witnesses and they can write statements to be considered with the same weighting as VCS statementa nd overall thattips the balance in your favour as they ahve to prove their case in every aspect and as they rely on just a cople of photos of the car reg they will be hard pushed to prove you were parked there all that time.

Another thing you could ask around for- neighbours CCTV?

[Legggy]

Hi, Should I amend the the standard CPR 31.14 request by requesting actual camera footage proving I was parked there the whole time or just send the standard template?  and is the Case no. on the CPR the Claim no. used on MCOL or is it the VCS reference no?

Edited August 14, 2019 by Legggy

[ericsbrother]

there is no footage, they just capture the reg number as you enter and leave.

the standard template is fine, they arent going to respiond anyway and that allows you to cast doubt on their credentials, which is the main point of doing this.

[Legggy]

Ok will crack on with the CPR, Thanks.

Unfortunately I have 2 cases with them one for St Marys Gate and one for a different car at BErkeley centre. Should I send both CPRs in one envelope or keep it separate? 

Edited August 14, 2019 by Legggy

[dx100uk]

Sep court claims need sep response s throughout

 

[Legggy]

Thanks, will do.

[Legggy]

Hi, I defended on MCOL (see below) and will send the N180 over the weekend as due 27th. Regarding witnesses my partner is due in the next week and would not want to drag mother and newborn  to court as witness as there would be no babysitter (would baby be allowed at hearing?) so Question. should I still put 2 in the witness and what time should I say they are not available for? or would a statement from her be ok and for that would I have to tick the expert box on the N180 and put no. of witness to 1? 

 

Also with the submission of defence I said no to counterclaim. Can a counter claim be made after?

 

Please advise

Thanks

 

 

[1. It is denied that the Defendant parked continuously between the times mentioned in the Particulars. Hence the alleged contravention of being parked for longer than the maximum period permitted did not occur as the car was used to drop people off and then later used to pick people up so the vehicle was not parked continuously as alleged. The Claimant is put to strict proof.

2. The Claimant has failed to show, upon request under CPR 31.14, any authority or agency to enter into contracts with the public by way of an assignment from the proprietor to do the same and to make civil claims in their own name.

3. The Defendant contends that the Claimant has no authority or agency to do such therefore there can be no claim.

4. The Claimant has failed to show, upon request under CPR 31.14, any evidence of planning permission for installation of cameras and signage under the Town and Country Planning Act 2007.]

[brassnecked]

Might be useful to have some proof of where the vehicle was in the times between drop off and pick up, a receipt from other side of town is always good. 

[lookinforinfo]

Perhaps your phone could confirm your movements on that day.

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/science-technology/828836/Phone-location-Google-Android-iPhone-iOS-privacy-Google-Maps

[Legggy]

Hi brassnecked and lookingforinfo, I have answered your good points above in posts #4 and #6 above respectively not having any joy on those avenues unfortunately.

 

Could you please advise me on my questions in #15 with regards to witnesses on the N180 please?

[dx100uk]

I wit the defendant

no you dont ever counter claim

[Legggy]

Thanks DX re counterclaim.

Just to clarify regarding witness should I just put one on the N180 and at court just take a witness statement from partner?

 

[dx100uk]

Cant see your point of involving the mrs at all

 

[Legggy]

On 14/08/2019 at 14:48, ericsbrother said:

then you have witnesses and they can write statements to be considered with the same weighting as VCS statementa nd overall thattips the balance in your favour as they ahve to prove their case in every aspect and as they rely on just a cople of photos of the car reg they will be hard pushed to prove you were parked there all that time.

Another thing you could ask around for- neighbours CCTV?

Was just going with this advice and trying to get clarity for the N180.

I'm more than happy to not get the other half involved.

[Legggy]

Hi, I had no WS for this case but it is being bulk processed/heard together with my other case for a separate car park for which all WS are in place. Are they allowed to have this case heard without a separate WS for it?

[ericsbrother]

If the 2 claims are being heard together then yes but that is a risk for them as they stand to lose both.

They dotn care as they know they dotn really have a claim and are just trying it on so they alsoe save money by doing this.

However, if they havent asked for permission to do this then you should ask the judge to chuck out the claim for having no WS so nothing for you to respond to. you will need to read what the court has sent you carefully so there is no misunderstanding before you get there

[Legggy]

Court letter states to the effect the hearing for claims A and B will be on C.

I will contest on basis of no WS and see what the judge says.

Thanks

[ericsbrother]

If the judge decides the WS counts fo both then accept that but what you need to do now is pick holes in their WS regaing dates, times etc so show that the events are different in their nature.

 

It will be a small part of the overall approach to this.

 

judges were given extensive powers to manage their own case load a few years back as part fo the simplification of the small claims and county court system. Dont hack them off but show you know what you are talking about