Help required with Yorkshire Water

[BankFodder]

It would also be interesting to find out who installed the meter.  Whether done by a building development company or was it done by Yorkshire water themselves. It would be very nice if it was Yorkshire water

[dexter79]

its a 1930's semi so i doubt it will have been the development company

 

[BankFodder]

Well can you please take steps to find out.  If the installation was by YW and it was their error, then you are in an excellent position - and so are your neighbours

 

How long have they been there?

[dexter79]

i was informed by a representative of YW that it was another company who did it on their behalf, next door have been in there for a lot longer than we have. as far as i am aware the meter was fitted in 2006

 

[dexter79]

Hi Bankfodder

i have worked out the interest at 8% on 50% of the payments i have made, but for ease i worked out the 8% from the end of each financial year. 

these are as follows

Actual Charge for 2 properties divided by 2		annual interest on amount owed (8%)	daily interest	number of days funds are owed	total interest
£114.40		£9.15	£0.03	3651.00	£91.54
£302.20		£24.18	£0.07	3286.00	£217.65
£265.51		£21.24	£0.06	2921.00	£169.98
£215.26		£17.22	£0.05	2555.00	£120.54
£229.52		£18.36	£0.05	2190.00	£110.17
£248.09		£19.85	£0.05	1825.00	£99.23
£264.23		£21.14	£0.06	1460.00	£84.55
£256.48		£20.52	£0.06	1094.00	£61.50
£315.19		£25.21	£0.07	729.00	£50.36
£264.41		£21.15	£0.06	364.00	£21.09
£226.84		£18.15	£0.05	-1.00	-£0.05
£2,702.09					£1,026.57
	Total 50% of charged usage plus interest at 8% for each year owed				£3,728.66

[dexter79]

I think i am going to wait for the SAR and then i can see when we made the monthly payments and then take the interest from that date. 

and then of course i will ask what they are prepared to offer for compensation for the hassle and time i have spent on this. Then of course i need to decide what we would want going forward, personally with the derisory offer that they have made i feel like insisting that i stay on a meter and that they make a new supply to my neighbours from the front and then disconnect mine from the back. But i have not totally decided on this yet. 

personally i can't see them agreeing to this as there literature states that "If your water company cannot fit a meter, you may benefit from an assessed charge"

 

can i check , do the figures i have calculated above look correct for the interest @ 8%

[dx100uk]

don't think you are correct

use the statint sheet

input each figure on the date they charged you it.

 

 

[dexter79]

thanks for that DX100uk ill use that spreadsheet when i get the information from the SAR

thanks

T

[BankFodder]

Please present the figure for interest separately

[ericsbrother]

your neighbour wont get a rebate as they arent paying for water used but a flat rate for a supply.

What yu need to know is what would the flat rate for your property be and as you have to keep the meter by law how they intend to calculate consumption if they dont change the supply.

What you need to agree with YW is that they will disengage the properties and then take reading to calculate a months consumption and then use this figure to back calculate your water consumption and then create a new bill.

 

your neighbour will have metered water from now on but hey, they wont have to pay any more for the past as back billing applies

[dexter79]

Thanks Ericsbro

 

I'm not sure what you mean by disengage the properties, i don't really want to agree anything with YW without understanding it and i',m also going to see what the SAR says first.

 

cheers

T

[dexter79]

Just to update, 

I received a letter from YW that says

"The Yorkshire Water Service Ltd Data Protection Team acknowledges your request on 19/07/2019 to access your personal data under the Data Protection Act 2018. 

 

We will be in touch with you within one calendar month.

 

Yours Sincerely

Data Protection Team"

 

is this letter acceptable ? 

i thought that GDPR said it had to be dealt with ASAP

 

thanks

Tom

[dx100uk]

if you read the saryou sent ... its 30days

[dexter79]

mine just said "Under the new GDPR regime, you must satisfy this data disclosure request as soon as possible " oops might have accidently deleted a bit too much 

 

[ericsbrother]

this has nothinmg to do with your neighbour, they pay a flat fee. You ae paying for their water as well as yours and that is the problem.

 

Your neighbour sending a SAR will gain exactly nothing as you already know there isnt a meter there.

waht you want is for YW to replace your connection so you only meter your own consumptioj so you can then calculate how much money they owe you. until this happens you can never get to the correct bill.

I wouldnt be warning them abotu what you might do next either, get them to put things right and then clobber them if they dont agree to a proper solution but you are 6 months at least away from that and if you arent paying for 2 lots of water at the moment even the minor adjustment between the consumption charge and the flat rate will be a bonus to look forward to rather than a point to argue about now

[dexter79]

thanks Ericsbro

 

I realise the problem is that i have been (still am) paying for next doors water as well as my own. I last spoke with YW last week, the lady asked me what i thought of the refund that was calculated (show earlier in thread). I told her this was  unacceptable and at the very least we should look at paying me at least 50% of what i have paid. I was told that this can't be done due to the fact that when the meter was fitted (2006) if they had known or realised it was a dual feed then i would have been billed on the estimated usage. They are not willing to put a new connection into next door and are insisting on me going onto the estimated usage billing system for the future. 

The annoying thing for me is that from the figures she has given me and roughly assuming that we have used 50% of the water that has gone through the meter then i will end up paying more for the estimated usage than i would for a meter serving just my property.

 

ill update you when i hear more or get my SAR information

cheers

T

[BankFodder]

Just one quick word here: don't worry about what they say is possible not possible. They are simply talking about their own internal policies which have nothing at all to do with their legal obligations towards you or your legal obligations towards them.

[ericsbrother]

turn the water off and report it as a fault. get your neighbour to demand that YW connect them to the mains via their own supply. Report to local television news people.

[dexter79]

Hi, 

Just an update as today

i have received a letter from YW and also my SAR documents came whilst i was away last week. 

 

Firstly the SAR documents dont actually have a piece that i would expect that is like a statement (table kind of thing) showing the dates we have made payments by direct debit.

 

The only place i can see these are on some really bad copies of paper statements / bills that would also have been posted. 

Can i request this from them. 

 

Further to this i have today received a letter saying the below

 

"

Dear Mr ...........

Thankyou for speaking with me on 24th July 2019.

 

I'm sorry we've charged you for the water your neighbours have used. I fully appreciate how frustrated you must feel, epsecially when you've been overpaying for 11 years.

 

By way of apology for billing you incorrectly, i've credited your account with £220.00.

 

As we're no longer charging you on the meter that records the water you and your neighbour use and we can't fit a meter anywhere else, we're now billing you on an assessed charge. This is a fixed charge for homes which can't be metered. 

 

I've worked out what you would have paid based on our assessed charge. We owe you £1990.31 for what you've overpaid on the meter and an additional £47.18 for the interest. You'll receive a refund of £2257.49 in your bank within 5-7 working days.

 

I'll keep an eye on your account until 27th August in case you have any further questions. If you'd like to talk to me, please call me on 01274 318013

 

Yours Sincerley."

 

When i last spoke to YW on the 27th July i did tell them that i do not agree with the way in which the refund has been calcualated and that also i am not waanting to go on an assessed charge. 

 

what should i do next.

 

thanks

Tom

 

[BankFodder]

Sorry but I'm away at the moment and have very patchy Internet access. I'll have to try and get my head back into action on the story on this thread. However it sounds to me as if they are proposing to make you a refund – but of course without interest so effectively it means they have had an interest-free loan from you for 11 years. I wonder if they would do the same for you?

[dexter79]

thanks Bank, 

thats what i thought although she says in the letter that they calculate interest at £47.18 not sure how. 

 

enjoy your holiday !! and i will contact them thanking them for the advance payment but in no way do i accept this as full and final agreement.

 

meanwhile i will try to work out what i have paid when to try and work out the interest.

 

cheers

tom

[BankFodder]

Okay. I'm trying to get my head around this.

How much do you say they shouldn't recently refund you?

How much interest do you think they should reasonably be paying you on top of that assuming that we are talking about 8% interest.

Somewhere in the Yorkshire water website they talk about refunding interest when overpayments are made. Can you find that these.

I gather you prefer that your supply is metered. Seeing as a metre has been installed on your property, it seems to me that they have a contractual duty to use the meter and I am sure that first of all they can use it, second of all that they can isolate the supply from your neighbours and provide a separate supply to your neighbour. I'm quite certain that it is merely a question of economics.

I'm wondering if there is a way to contact your bank and to instruct them to refuse any payments from the mass company. I think it is quite important to start claiming a figure which they disagree with and then to bring a Canticle action against them for that figure is 8% interest. Once the papers are in then they will have no choice but to pay the interest. One thing you want to avoid is Yorkshire water making a part payment to you so that eventually if you have to bring a legal action you will only be able to bring action for the balance as interest on that balance. It would be very difficult to claim interest on money which had already been paid – although we can certainly try and if push comes to shove that's what we'll do.

If you agree, I would send a recorded delivery letter to the water company instructing them that you disagree completely with their calculations and telling them that they are not to make any payments to your bank account until you have calculated the full extent of their debt to you.

Also I would contact your bank and find out from them if it is possible it is not any payments in. Strictly speaking I'm sure that this is possible. However you will be dealing with the drones on the telephone will never have come across this idea before in their entire lives of somebody not wanting to accept money being paid into account and so they are likely to object and to say that it is not possible. Your position would be that you are simply exercising control over your account and that you want them to obey your instructions. I think you will need to push it and then to confirm in writing. If there is any objection then you should immediately begin an ombudsman complaint so that they realise that it is serious and that they have to take formal notice of the fact that you are giving them a certain instruction as to the access to your account. It may be unusual but it seems reasonable enough to me

[dexter79]

So , 

after sending a letter refusing to accept the refund that was offered i received a phone call yesterday and an email that sums up the conversation i had. I have copied this below. 

Good morning Mr 

Thank you for your email received on 16 August 2019.

I’m sorry you disagree with our calculations and felt that my colleague didn’t listen to you.  I understand you don’t want us to make any account
adjustment or accept our proposed solution, until we look at everything again for you.

We’re committed to providing our customers with the highest quality services, so I’ll do all I can to help you and put this right.

I’m pleased we had the opportunity to talk about your concerns and decide on the best way forward.  As we agreed, here’s a summary of the issues we
talked about:

· You requested details of your metered bills and payments (I’ve attached these to this email).
· You don’t want to accept the solution we offered, of billing you on our ‘assessed charge’ tariff.
· You don’t want to accept the goodwill payment offered £220.00 and feel you could have built your extension 2 years earlier, if we hadn’t charged you
too much.

· The meter readings we billed you for include water used at 74 Scotchman Lane, because you have a shared supply pipe.
· You’d like 50% of your water and sewerage volume charges refunding to resolve this.
· You’d like interest on your overpayment calculated accurately and based on 8% (not the Bank of England base rate).
· You spoke to our technician and you said he advised it would be easy to alter your private pipework, so a meter can be fitted just for your home.
· You prefer to pay a metered charge.
· I’ll look into the points you’ve raised, and I’ll do all I can to work towards an amicable solution with you.

I’ve taken the first step and I’m pleased to confirm that we’ve arranged a meter survey to be carried out on 6 September 2019 (arriving between 10am
and 12 noon).  This survey will be done by our service partner ‘Morrison Utilities’, and they can estimate what it will cost you to have the pipework
altered, so a meter can be fitted.  Once I have the results of their visit,

I’ll give you a call so we can talk about our next step.

After we reach a solution and agree how you’ll be billed, I’ll be happy to work out a new interest calculation for you.  We use the Bank of England base
rate and this won’t be changed, but I’ll be happy to renegotiate a final settlement figure with you.  If we pay interest, this will be subject to current HMRC
taxation rules.

I assure you, I’ll keep an eye on your account and update you on each step we take.  I’ll call you again by 13 September 2019 about our progress.

In the meantime, if you’d like to talk to me, please call me on 01274 318452 and I’ll be happy to help.  If I’m not available you’ll be able to talk to
a colleague or leave a message.

Regards

 

Personally i am not happy with the email especially as I didnt mention that i would pay for any pipework to be altered. He did say to me on the phone that the pipes after the boundary are ours and therefore our responsibility. I did then point out that if this was the case then there is nothing to stop me cutting and capping the pipe after it enters my property. 

 

I am now going to try work out what the refund with 8% interest is from the figures he has provided.

[BankFodder]

Why aren't you recording your calls?

 

Please monitor this thread for a fuller reply over the weekend

 

 

[dx100uk]

 statint sheet does flat rate at 8% for you