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andythepandy93

VCS ANPR PCN Claimform - overstay - St Marys Gate Retail Park sheffield

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Hi all,

 

I received a Parking Charge Notice from Vehicle Control Services on the 20th November 2015.

This was issued via an ANPR camera and has photos of my car entering and leaving the carpark at the correct times.

 

It was on the 06/11/16, in St Marys Gate Retail Park in Sheffield, or as so I completely believed, the Staples carpark.

I assumed it was a free to use carpark as it is so obviously outside of Staples, however upon receiving the charge from VCS I realise that it is in fact a private carpark.

 

The charge was for £60, increasing to £100 after 14 days.

The maximum stay was 1 hour, and I was parked and in the store for 110 minutes.

 

I was sorting out a complicated return/refund/exchange which took a very long time as it was being carried out by a new member of staff who didn't exactly know what they were doing. After finally completing this, they informed me I had a lot of store credit so I then had to go off and choose something for this.

 

I contacted the general manager at Staples, and after viewing store CCTV he sent me an email confirming I was in the store for the whole time.

I appealed to VCS providing the details and this email from Staples, but this was rejected.

 

I then appealed to the IAS but apparently I missed the step where I had the chance to upload my evidence, so I went pretty much unheard and it was decided in favour of VCS.

 

I then carried out some research and determined that these PCNs were nothing but scaremongering, so I decided to leave it and see what happened.

It went quiet and I thought that was that, until recently where I received a letter from BW Legal issued on the 19/07/16 saying "We have been instructed by Vehicle Control Services Limited in relation to the Balance Due". The charge is now £154 with the addition of legal fees, with 16 days to pay. Again I did some research and determined that I could leave it as the worst the letter said was if I don't pay they can seek VCSs instruction to get a Country Court Claim Form, nothing legal yet.

 

I received another letter today, dated 17/08/16, saying I haven't paid yet, and gives me another 17 days from the date of this letter to pay. "[we requite payment], failing which our client has instructed us to commence County Court proceedings against you for recovery of the Balance."

 

From what people seem to say, you shouldn't pay until you receive a claim form, however each case is surely different, and I suddenly got cold feet and would greatly appreciate some advice. I also think the charge amount will increase if I receive on of these forms, and it does say that they have been instructed to commence proceedings.

 

I've tried to include everything I can think of, anything I've missed I can provide.

 

Many thanks,

Andy

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Send the one line denial letter


..

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Sorry not quite sure what you mean, do you want me to upload the letters they have sent me? or send them a one line denial letter haha

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Yep sorry I thought you'd already read posts here

 

Type in VCS excel bw

In our search cag box of top red toolbar


..

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Okay cool thanks. I found many references to a denial letter, but found only one type up of one. The below correct? Also, is email okay or is a letter better?

 

Cheers

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

Your Ref: ***********

 

I refer to your letter dated ***.

I have no intention of paying the money demanded by your client and any court proceedings will be vigorously defended.

 

You should note that this charge is disputed and you must now refer this matter back to your client and cease and desist all contact with me. I will not respond to any further communication on this unless it comes from a court.

 

I trust I have made myself clear.

 

Yours faithfully

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when you say you received the demand on the 20th

is that the date you got it or the date the letter was sent?

If the latter then there is no keeper liability as they are out of time.

 

 

However, by appealing it then becomes clear that you must have said you were the driver so that has negated that defence.

 

It would now be wise to post up all of the correspondence so we can pick holes in their claim.

 

 

also, if you live close to the car park pictures of the signage would be useful

as there is obviously some ambiguity as to who may or may not use it

and I bet the wording screws their claim for them.

 

 

Better to get this done sooner than later and delay responding to BW in the meanwhile.

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Thanks for your reply.

 

It states on the letter that the notice was issued on the 20th. I was at uni at the time and this was sent home, so I would have received it when my mum posted it up a few days later. I only know the date when I appealed to VCS which was on the 30th.

 

At the time I thought appealing would really be the best option, I know differently if this ever happens again.

 

Letters are here:

 

I'm not in sheffield anymore, however they sent me a pdf with all the signage in so I'll dig that up

 

Proof of signs that they sent me, obviously it's obvious when they have photos of them but the situation of the carpark just makes one assume it's for the store

vcs bw letters.pdf

vcs signage 2.pdf

vcs signage 1.pdf

vcs signage 3.pdf

Edited by andythepandy93

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well, 2 sets of signs so which one are the contract?

not the ones with T&C's apply as they are invitations to treat and the other ones with bigger writing dont make it clear that you pay £ cash if you dont adhere to them.

 

They may think that it is self-evident but there is no mention of the conditional requirements on the signage.

 

 

So- no paying for breach of contract and if it was contractual then there should be no free parking but a sign saying parking £cash, free for 1st hour.

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Okay great, so should I send the denial letter (letter/email?) or just ignore?

 

Many thanks for the help!

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If you hadnt played letter tennis with them they would have been timed out for keeper liability and you could have simply told them to foff.

Now you need to respond to BW and say that "the signage at the site does not create a contractual obligation to pay your clients anything. Any claim will be vigourously defnded and a full costs recovery order sought as any action would now be vex"

 

Being greedy and stupid they may well issue a claim anyway so make sure you use a current service address for correspondence so you have another stick to beat them with should they write to an old address.

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Okay great, will do. Is an email fine or should I write a proper letter with their address/my address and all that?

 

Cheers

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I would always write a proper letter and get a COP free from the post office. Creates a more impressive paper trail should you need one.

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Great, thanks for all the help! Will get it written up now

 

Sorry to ask so many questions, but just want to make sure this is all done right so it'll be the end of it!

 

Is this okay in your opinion?

bw legal letter.PNG

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I would use vexatious rather than simply vex

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Well it might well be, but doesn't sound quite right, and may have been a slip of the finger or a lapse into vernacular by EB!! Good luck.

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it is latin and means the same. As you have guessed, it is just a common abbreviation used in law.

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Thank you very much for your help everyone, the letter is now sent.

 

Will report back here if I hear anything!

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Hey all,

 

I posted nearly 3 years ago here at the above.

 

After two years of silence from VCS, I out of the blue received a new letter from them dated 24/04/2019.

This was sent to a new address that VCS could not know - I was stumped.

 

However, a few weeks prior I had updated the address on my driving license

- so I assume this new info filtered through to them thanks to the DVLA selling data - great.

 

this letter was the classic "pay up or we'll take you to court" which I'd had before, and I decided to ignore it.

It stated that if the outstanding balance was not paid before 24/05/2019 then they would commence legal proceedings.

That date came and passed and I heard nothing,

 

yesterday I received a County Court claim form for the amount of £185 (£160 + £25 court fee).

Now I very much understand I cannot ignore this, I just need help in going forward

- namely do I just give up and pay up, or are there any chances of winning a defence etc.

Most of the details are in the previous post, but I'll try to give a concise summary of everything below.

 

 

06/11/2015:

I parked in St Marys Gate Retail Park car park in Sheffield.

To me this car park was "Staple's carpark".

It was outside staples, and I had parked there before.

 

I had absolutely no idea it was private land, and certainly no idea there were ANPR cameras logging my entry/exit times and a maximum time stay of 1 hour.

 

I had gone into staples to return a faulty item.

This process ended up taking a very long time due to several reasons (junior staff being trained up, and in the end being given store credit which I then spent at the time).

I have an email from the manager of that Staple's store stating that I was in the shop for the entire time. 

 

Bottom line: I stayed in the carpark for 110mins (max 60mins).

As I was studying at Sheffield University, the initial letter from VCS was sent to my home address in Kent.

This was forwarded to me in Sheffield later.

 

I then appealed the ticket, this was rejected.

I then appealed to IAS, but this was also decided in VCS's favour (I somehow missed the step where I had a chance to upload any evidence - but I'm pretty sure it would have gone the same way even if I had uploaded any)

 

I then did a lot of reading on several forums and discovered that most of these letters are just trying to scare people into paying up before things get to court, so I made the decision to just go silent.

 

I next heard from BW Legal on the 19/07/2016, who had been instructed by VCS to get their money. I again stayed quiet.

I heard again from BWL on the 17/08/2016, once again asking for the money. At this point I consulted these forums (see above URL) and sent the letter that can be seen in that post. 

 

This is where the long silence is, and I genuinely thought I had gotten off it. Until the letter and CCJ claim form I describe in my two opening paragraphs.

 

I realise I had to act relatively speedily at this point, either with an AoS saying I'm going to defend myself OR an admission and paying the £185.

 

Honestly right now I'm very tempted to pay just to end this thing. However after even more reading about VCS/BWL and other private parking enforcement companies, I realise there can be (in a lot of cases?) a good chance to win.

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Any extra/missed details can be provided.

 

Many thanks,

Andy

 

 

 

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Hi.

 

I'm not sure you'll need to pay this,  at least wait for the PPC experts please. They should be along soon.

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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old and new threads merged

 

please complete this:

 

 

 


..

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Thanks for your reply, details below:

 

Name of the Claimant:

JAKE BURGESS

Vehicle Control Services Limited

2 Europa Court

Sheffield Business Park

Sheffield

S9 1XE

 

claimants Solicitors:

Can't see this anywhere on claim form, but have previously had letters from BW Legal

 

Date of issue

11/07/2019

 

Date of issue

11/07/2019

+ 19 days ( 5 day for service + 14 days to acknowledge) = 29/07/2019

+ 14 days to submit defence = 12/08/2019 (33 days in total) 

 

What is the claim for

The Claim is for a breach of contract for breaching the terms and conditions set on private land. The Defendant's vehicle, ****** [my registration], was identified in the St Marys Gate Retail Park on the 06/11/2015 in breach of the advertised terms and conditions; namely parked for longer than maximum period permitted. At all material times the Defendant was the registered keeper and/or driver. The terms and conditions were clearly displayed at the entrance and in prominent locations. The sign was the offer and the act of entering private land was the acceptance of the offer hereby entering into a contract by conduct. The signs specifically detail the terms and conditions and the consequences of failure to comply, namely a parking charge notice will be issued, and the Defendant has failed to settle the outstanding liability. The Claimant seeks the recovery of the parking charge notice, contractural costs and interest. 

 

What is the value of the claim?

£185 =

£160 (Account Claimed)

£25 (Court fee)

 

Has the claim been issued by the Private parking Company or was the PCN assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim?

VCS has issued the claim

 

Were you aware the account had been assigned, did you receive a Notice of Assignment?

Sorry, not sure what this means.

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pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform.
.
 register as an individual
 note the long gateway number given
 then log in
.
 select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.
.
 then using the details required from the claimform
.
 defend all
 leave jurisdiction unticked.
 click thru to the end
 confirm and exit MCOL.

 get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors [if one is not listed send to the claimant]

no need to sign anything
.
you DO NOT await the return of paperwork.
you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform [1 in the count]


..

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Okay great, thank you.

 

I have sent AOS on MCOL. 

 

Is CPR request best done on printed letter, or via email (I assume printed letter), or both? Will this be addressed to claimant exactly as address on the court claim form? In this case:

JAKE BURGESS

Vehicle Control Services Limited

2 Europa Court

Sheffield Business Park

Sheffield

S9 1XE

 

Thanks again

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never use or give them an email.


..

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