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    • Looking at the sentencing guidelines, the sentence, on the face of it, seems harsh – and a little confusing. From your description the offence seems at the lower end of seriousness. There are three bands of seriousness mentioned in the guidelines. From the least serious, the suggested sentences are:   A fine of half a week’s net income, and 3-4 points A fine of a week’s net income and 5-6 points A fine of a week and a half’s net income and 7-9 points (or a disqualification).   The sentencing guidelines are here:   Careless Driving (drive without due care and attention) (Revised 2017) – Sentencing WWW.SENTENCINGCOUNCIL.ORG.UK     From your description I can see no aggravating factors to push the offence up from the lowest band of seriousness.   The sum he has been ordered to pay is based on the highest fine – a week and a half’s income. Let me explain how I have deduced this. As well as the fine, the court will also order prosecution costs (normally £90) and a “victim surcharge” of 10% of the fine. When the court has no information about a defendant’s income a default figure of £440 per week is used. So, he will have been ordered to pay 1.5 times £440, so £660 by way of a fine, £66 Victim Surcharge and £90 costs. Total £816, as per his notice. The fine indicates that the court viewed the offence in the top band of seriousness.   The confusing thing is the points. If the court considered the offence at the top of the seriousness range, he should have received at least seven points, not six. He has also been sentenced on the basis of a Not Guilty plea (which is again the default when no plea has been entered). This means he did not receive credit for his guilty plea. This is normally a discount of one third off the fine (but not the points).   So much for an explanation of what’s happened. What’s to do? He faces some considerable difficulty here because of the length of time elapsed between his conviction and now. His only option is to ask for a court hearing to have the matter reopened.   He should be aware that the court is not obliged to agree to this and may not do so in view of the time elapsed. When making his request he should do so on the basis that the sentence does not seem to comply with the guidelines on two counts: (1) he should submit that the offence is at the lowest end of seriousness and (2) the sentence is inconsistent with the guidelines anyway (discrepancy between points and fine).   He also needs to contact the fines office as a matter of urgency. I am surprised he has not already faced one of the sanctions they mention by now but he needs to let them know he is asking for his case to be reopened. Once again, in view of the time elapsed, they may continue with their normal enforcement process anyway.    If he had dealt with this promptly it is my view (provided the court sees the offence at the lowest end of seriousness) he should have face a fine of half a week’s net income, reduced by a third for his guilty plea, a 10% victim surcharge (minimum £34), £90 costs and three points. That is the ideal outcome he should be looking for but, as I said, the court may not agree to reopen the matter at all. If they do, he may find his full discount for a guilty plea is reduced due to his tardiness. Do let us know how it goes.
    • Agree with Trevor Kavanagh, that the UK cannot afford a Government that is totally split and unable to take the decisive action required.   Government should act on energy price rises by directly providing additional money to help reduce bills.  The £400 announced so far would not be enough.   Reduce the VAT on domestic energy to 0%.   Universal Credit and other benefits need to be increased back to the level provided during Covid as a minimum.   Fuel duties should be cut.   Offer incentives to use public transport by paying subsidies to bus and rail operators that they need to pass on, to reduce fares.    Urgent action required,  Cannot wait until September for emergency budget.    
    • You wanted Boris out and not to interfere in government until he left   Again, I wanted him to go immediately.
    • Of course the article is being argued from a different perspective  The general consensus seems to be developing that none of the lockdowns should ever have happened and the money printing that they caused is now the majority of the reason for the current difficulties  It is also arguing in effect that Boris should never have been removed  So regrettably I don’t think that you can have it both ways  You wanted Boris out and not to interfere in government until he left I suspect the majority on here were overwhelmingly in favour of lockdowns. That wish has been granted, so wait until a new PM is installed and see what they propose In the meantime why listen to a man with Browns record whilst in office?.
    • Thank you for the responses ! It's not close by me,I will get photos if I go back,  I don't want to visit the place again after this to be honest.    
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Lu v Nationwide


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yeah they have sent a letter saying the sum credited etc.


I have checked on moneyclaim online and it says the status of claim is defend, I have never received anything through the post saying they are going to defend - but the date they have put as defence is the date it was acknowledged - is this right???

Should I get a court date through soon - I'm scared!!


If I do a letter accepting this as partial payment do I send this to H.O address??:confused:

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Hi Lu1, exactly the same thing has happened to my sister as I have been doing all the online stuff for her. Nationwide were £200 short so I sent the letter accepting the offer but demanding the rest. Today they have put in a defence even though I only set the letter on Saturday. The defence has a date of 22nd December. I'll keep you posted on whatever information she receives. Don't worry, I think they are just trying to pull a fast one.

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Today I have received my 'Notice of defence that amount claimed has been paid' even though they haven't paid in full.

I have to tick a box wishing to proceed with the claim or not. I want the rest of MY money but worried now that this is going to get to court.

Is this letter standard practice???

When I send this back do I also send a letter to Nationwide accepting this as partial payment but saying I am continuing for the full amount??? Is there a template for this???


Any help greatly appreciated


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Thanks Garu

I think they are just trying to pull a fast one and scare me off - am a bit worried now but hey it will take more than this trick from Mr bacon to scare me off!

Is anyone else at this stage????

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi guys

Well I rceieved my allocation questionnaire at weekend so it has to be submitted by the 20th Feb, bit annoying that I have to pay another £100 when I really can't afford but it will be worthwhile.

Am a bit scared at this stage and keep hoping that they will pay up quickly, but I am sure they are just trying to scare me off claiming back the extra £900 that is RIGHTFULLY mine!!!

Seeing as they have already paid up a large amount of the charges surely this shows that they are guilty???


Has anyone actually had to appear in court yet???

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I decided to give nationwide a call before filling in my allocation questionnaire to see why they had paid my claim short £900, I really didn't expect them to do anything but a really nice, helpful lady looked into my claim and came back saying they had made a mistake and not printred off 6 months worth of charges, so they would send me a cheque for the remainder of my claim!!!

I'll wait and see when it arrives and for how much the cheque is for before getting too excited but it was well worth a phone call!!

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Hi Lu1,


Don't forget that 'Talk is Cheap'!

Banks aren't exactly reknown for honouring their verbal assurances.


Be mindful of still filing your AQ within the deadline set by the Court!!!



Hopefully U won't need to...But here's hoping eh?!...:)

The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

Blessed is he who in the name of charity and goodwill shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers.

And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

(Jules Winnfield)

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