VCS ANPR 2015 PCN claimform - Berkeley Centre Sheffield S11 8PN ***Claim Discontinued***

[anniebattlemum]

I am trying to help my daughter who has a 19month old baby and is a working Mum with no time to do the research.

 

She has received a County Court Notification re overstaying the 2 hour maximum at the Berkeley Centre retail park in Sheffield S11 8PN. There was a similar case filed by John7n in May 2018.  However my daughter's claim dates back to August 2015.

 

I understand that in November 2015, the Supreme Court ruled in the Beavis case that firms could impose a charge for overstaying and was wondering whether this ruling applies retrospectively. Back in 2015, the general advice was to ignore such claims as they were unenforceable, but VCS has been pursuing her ever since, so we are now preparing an appeal  an appeal.

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

Is it possible to scan the county court letter to a pdf file [please redact all personal information] and show us what they're saying please? It will help us to advise you and your daughter.

 

To scan to a pdf file, you can read our upload guide.

 

Does this really date back to 2015?

 

Best, HB

[dx100uk]

hi 

I suspect you mean she has received a N1 claimform pack in a brown envelope from northants bulk

if so 

can you please complete this:

 

 

[anniebattlemum]

Yes it is a N1 claim form pack and at the moment, I am unable to upload it in pdf format so it is not being accepted by your site.

 

I confirm it dates back to 2015 which makes it very difficult to provide any evidence to support an appeal.

 

Would you advise writing to VCS to request a copy of the contract with the landowner that was in existence in 2015?

 

The parking arrangements at the Berkeley Centre changed in 2018, so the signage will have changed and possibly the terms of the contract with the landowner. 

[dx100uk]

we don't need the PDF

we know what a claimform looks like.

 

just complete that link I sent you above please

 

has she got ANY paperwork from 2015 or ignored and disposed of the lot?

 

there are numerous historic threads here with Berkeley Centre stuff so shouldn't be a problem to buff this away.

 

don't do anything else till we advise please 

[anniebattlemum]

•  

•  #1

Name of the Claimant ?  Vehicle Control Services  

Date of issue –  25 June 2019

 

What is the claim for – 

 

1.The Claim is for a breach of contract for breaching the terms and conditions set on private land.

 

2.The Defendant's vehicle (reg number) was identified in the Berkeley Centre on the 12/08/2015

in breach of the advertised terms and conditions; namely parked for longer than maximum period permitted.

 

3.At all material times the Defendant was the registered keeper and/or driver.

 

4.The terms and conditions upon entering private land were clearly displayed at the entrance and in prominent locations.

The sign was the offer , and the act of entering private land was the acceptance of the offer hereby entering into a contract by conduct.

The signs specifically detail the terms and conditions and the consequences of failure to comply,

namely a parking charge notice will be issued, and the Defendant has failed to settle the outstanding liability.

 

5.The Claimant seeks the recovery of the parking charge notice, contractual costs and interest.

 

What is the value of the claim?  £185 in total (£160 + £25 court fee - no charge for legal representative's costs)

 

Has the claim been issued by the Private parking Company or was the PCN assigned and it is the Debt purchaser VCS

 

 

[anniebattlemum]

 

My daughter does still have the previous correspondence sent to various addresses.

She did not respond as the general advice was that this would confirm her personal data and potentially liability.

 

The documents sent include a photograph of her vehicle showing number plate and there was a grainy photo of the driver, which was totally unclear.

 

She overstayed by 17 minutes, entering at 6.56p.m. (still rush hour time) and leaving at 9.13p.m. (also a busy time for social traffic on this very busy road) so that exit time could have been prolonged. Tesco Express is one of the shops she used in the Centre and I understand they are usually lenient with first time offenders. 

 

My initial question was whether the courts acknowledge the right to charge for overstaying in cases that predate the Beavis case Supreme Court ruling of November 2015.

 

Also it would be helpful to know what rights the 2015 contract with the landowner gave VCS to charge for overstaying.

 

Any advice re how to proceed with the preparation of the POPLA appeal would be gratefully received.

She advised 2 days ago that she intends to appeal the entire claim, so I understand only 12 days remain.

[dx100uk]

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform.
.
 register as an individual
 note the long gateway number given
 then log in
.
 select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.
.
 then using the details required from the claimform
.
 defend all
 leave jurisdiction unticked.
 click thru to the end
 confirm and exit MCOL.

 get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors [if one is not listed send to the claimant]

no need to sign anything
.
you DO NOT await the return of paperwork.
you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform [1 in the count]
 

please get and scan up all the paperwork she has bar the N1

and scan it to ONE multipage pdf

read upload

 

 

[FTMDave]

4 hours ago, anniebattlemum said:

Any advice re how to proceed with the preparation of the POPLA appeal would be gratefully received.

She advised 2 days ago that she intends to appeal the entire claim, so I understand only 12 days remain.

 

The time for any appeals is long gone - she's being taken to court now by VCS.

 

Not that not appealing changes much, the PPCs always reject appeals and POPLA almost always (just done a little search and see that VCS aren't in the trade association that uses POPLA anyway).

 

DX above has set out how to start defending the claim and how to demand to see contacts etc. from VCS.  Your daughter needs to do this ASAP.

 

VCS may well drop the claim when they see a robust defence, in any case your comments about rush hour are very positive and will be one string to a excellent bow if it does go to a court hearing.

 

 

Edited July 6, 2019 by FTMDave

[anniebattlemum]

Money Claim registration was easy,

when I try to respond to the claim with the claim number and password,

which I have done repeatedly over several hours,

I'm told that the claim number or password is incorrect.

 

Has anyone ever come across this problem?

I can't believe there would be a mistake on the N1 form!

 

[dx100uk]

its often down at w/ends

not a problem your got till day 19 to AOS

 

did you send the CPR off?

 

 

 

[anniebattlemum]

Not yet.

I've wasted hours trying to sort out the problem with the moneyclaim website & trying to find their contact details to get it resolved!

 

Will get the CPR off tomorrow & mail first class Monday.

No solicitor mentioned so will go straight to VCS.

 

Thank you so much for keeping me right and keeping on top of it.

Much appreciated. 

[dx100uk]

should have come here sooner then.

 

it doesnt hurt you its down.

 

try Monday.

[anniebattlemum]

OK CPR letter ready to go.

Is there a case number that would be assigned if I could get into the MCOL website?

 

For the heading, I have just used the claim number on top of the N1.

Is that acceptable? I

 

will now scan the previous documents she has and try to get them into pdf format.

 

I'm afraid the AOS was sent off by my daughter by mail a few days ago.

Does that restrict our timeline for submitting the defence?

[dx100uk]

claim no is ok for CPR

 

you should still be able to reg'd on mcol Monday and do AOS

wont hurt the paper copy has gone off. 

[anniebattlemum]

Thank you FTMDave for your encouragement. I know these people try to operate by fear and scare people into paying up - fair enough if it was a small reasonable sum, but this is an outrageous amount for a small, first time non compliance. This is why I am ready to fight it. 

 

Would it be a good idea to send the CPR letter by recorded delivery/signed for, so that they can't argue they never received it?

[FTMDave]

I know the experts here recommend sending normal 1st class - but get a free Certificate of Posting from the Post Office.  After that by law the letter is deemed delivered in 48 hours.

 

Some of the worst PPCs have been known to refuse to sign for recorded delivery mail.

[dx100uk]

dont waste money they wont respond anyway

 

 

[anniebattlemum]

Wow thanks!

[dx100uk]

get reading up on parking prankster site

 

read as many pcn claimform threads here as you can

 

the more you read the stronger we become

 

use the custom google search box

after hitting our top squares logo

 

pcn claimform

 

 

[Ethel Street]

1 hour ago, FTMDave said:

I know the experts here recommend sending normal 1st class - but get a free Certificate of Posting from the Post Office.  After that by law the letter is deemed delivered in 48 hours.

 

Some of the worst PPCs have been known to refuse to sign for recorded delivery mail.

 

Unless you really can't afford it do what my employer does, it sends one copy of the letter ordinary 1st Class with a Certificate of Posting and another by 'Signed for' post. It's a 'belt and braces' approach but minimises the opportunity for the recipient to claim they never received it for very little cost. (My employer does it for HR stuff but the principle is no different for PPCs.)

[anniebattlemum]

Letters sent both ways as Ethel suggested.

 

Still having problems uploading previous letters as attachments too big, probably because they're not the original word documents but photos of them.

 

Working on that, but they are:

 

1) Demand for £60 within 14 days of 12/8/15 with grainy photos of car showing reg. number

2) Demand for £100 as too late to appeal

 

3)Demand for £130 from debt collectors £30 is for their admin) dated 19/11/15

 

4) Reminder for £130 from debt collectors dated 3/12/15

 

5) Demand for £154 from lawyers (they've added legal costs) dated 5/5/16 (they say there was a letter dated 1/3/16 but don't have this)

 

6) Demand for £231.33 from VCS dated 24/4/19 (includes debt collection fee of £60) but the PCN says they want to recover £160

 

Do we have only 14 days to submit the defence from the day the AOS was filed?

 

Will go to Sheffield tomorrow, get originals and try again.

 

Is it worth going through the archives at Sheffield Council Planning Department, to ensure permission was obtained for the sign?

 

Will it tell me anything about what was on the sign or just the dimensions and location? 

[ericsbrother]

should be on the planning portal. If it isnt then ask the council planning dept to look into whether consetn was applied for. This is specifically for the parking signs and cameras. not CCTV or signs for the shopping centre itself

[anniebattlemum]

Yes I have the original PCN and will send as soon as I have removed all personal references. It has two grainy photos on it, so that the registration is just about visible, but the driver definitely is not. 

[dx100uk]

neither of those are important 

 

they cant use that to id a driver think about it

 

it was the date it was issued and the date of the 'offence' we are interested in 

they must be within 14 days 

 

did you do AOS and CPR yet?