Jump to content

 

BankFodder BankFodder


anniebattlemum

VCS ANPR 2015 PCN claimform - Berkeley Centre Sheffield S11 8PN ***Claim Discontinued***

Recommended Posts

On 22/02/2020 at 15:14, anniebattlemum said:

Could you please tell me whether the paralegal who has signed the Statement of Truth and looks as though she will be representing the claimant at the hearing and has only been employed there for a year, is actually qualified to sign the statement of truth in accordance with Practice Direction 22 Para 3, which seems to suggest it has to be a senior manager? Is this a valid point to raise?

as they work for VCS then yes, ANY employee would be in the same position. If they workd for a firm of solicitors then they would have to have some involvement in the case before they are allowed to sign things off and attend.

A paralegal working for a solicitor for hire who pitched up on the day would have no right of audience.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

as for their WS being a pack of lies.

 

i would advice against saying they are lying, just say it is factually incorrect as you cant prove intent despite the fact that they peddle the same lies in every claim they make so they know it isnt true.

 

judges in small claims courts have a lot of powers to manage their work and dispose of things how they see fit so by all means ask for their WS to be chucked out if the person writing it doesnt attend but dont be surprised if it isnt, the judge wont want a rerun because VCS have appealed that they werent given a fair crack of the whip so it may be allowed to test the arguments (and then torm to shreds by the judges commentary if you are lucky) and see how you perform.

 

what they dont want is for a decent claim to be beaten by a crappy defence on just a technicality which wouldnt exist of the matter had been dealt with "on the papers".

 

We advise against having a paper hearing because their lies dont get tested so dont be upset if you ahve to address things even in the absence of anyone from the other side ( I have had that, having to sell my side without anyone from CEL being present just to make sure justice was done- the judge explained a little about the law around some of the points I had made and told me what else I could have raised before he dismissed the claim on a number of points)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm sorry to request this, but this is a revised version, still pretty long, but if you have time, would it be possible to check whether this is sufficient in your view and ensure that I haven't said anything libellous. I'm ready to wrap it up really - just have to sort out the contents list and all the attachments/ evidence. 

DEFENCE STATEMENT FEB 2020.pdf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In point 4 Elliott V loake as is Criminal is NOT applicable to a civil case, as there is a duty to name the driver in a criminal case as it can get the keeper a fine and 6 points for failing to do so, nothing at all to compel in a Civil case.  In fact PPC's have lost on this point by being told the case is inapplicable details on prankster site

https://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/10/excel-parking-youve-been-gladstoned.html

https://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2017/01/skipton-judge-rubbishes-elliot-v-loake.html


We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

 

The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thx yes I'll make that a bit clearer. VCS didn't mention it but I just wanted to pre-empt it, just in case! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well thank you - it ain't over yet! Actually it's been an incredible learning experience and maybe in my next life I'd like to be a lawyer! I just hope all the chat on this forum is of some help to others in the same boat. Unbelievably, my son in London has just told me he's had a PCN for £170 from Parking Eye, which he claims is not justified. And so it goes on! The sooner they get the government Code of Practice up and running the better. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can you please advise whether the Defence Statement has to be in the name of the Defendant or whether I can put my name and address and sign it, identifying myself as her Lay Representative, just as the Claimant's rep has put their statement in her name. That would mean I could field the questions on the evidence at least and my daughter would just have to deal with any direct questions about her own situation. Thanks. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the defendant signs this off, you cannot do so, you are not a solicitor. i have explained why an employee of the co has signed theirs off, they act vicariously.

If you are going to act as lay rep then you need to make that clear to the court, preferably in writing  a short time before the hearing. Quote the law on this as well as I have come across judges who dotn understand the difference between a lay rep and a Mckenzie Friend The lay rep has the right to speak and cross examine, a MF can only quietly advise and support

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK that's what I thought. Thx Eric's Brother for clarifying. I didn't realise I need to advise the court about my presence either - the instructions don't mention this. I have seen this confusion about a McKenzie Friend in reading other cases - I just assumed that was another legal name for a lay rep, so thx for that tip too. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Erics brother has cleared that one up, so follow his advice to get the right to speak, will make a big difference to be able to challenge the Claimant's case at a hearing.


We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

 

The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep will do thx. We'll enclose a letter from the Defendant, along with the Defence Statement, requesting permission for me to accompany the Defendant as her Lay Representative, according to the Lay Representatives (Rights of Audience) Order 1999. Will that do it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You've put a massive amount of work into preparing the case.

 

The only pitfall that's gone through my mind is that it will be your daughter, not you, defending the case.

 

Some years back me & two friends were witnesses in a criminal case.  It was easy to guess that the strategy of the defence lawyer would be to pretend we were the ones doing what we shouldn't.  So the weekend before the case we met & tried to simulate as best we could the difficult questions we could be asked, each of us in turn pretending to be the defence.  It worked a treat.  The defence lawyer in reality was pathetic and the case easily went our way!


We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

 

I know Dave, that concerns me too. She doesn't have a clue - she's trying to deal with a difficult 4 week old baby, a blood clot in her leg and a wild 2 year old - she's at GP's and hospital almost every day, so that's why I'm committed to fighting injustice on her behalf. I will have to have a session with her to brief her, like a simulated interview such as you're describing,  but I'm seriously hoping it will go away before then! Thx for the benefit of your experience. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, anniebattlemum said:

OK that's what I thought. Thx Eric's Brother for clarifying. I didn't realise I need to advise the court about my presence either - the instructions don't mention this. I have seen this confusion about a McKenzie Friend in reading other cases - I just assumed that was another legal name for a lay rep, so thx for that tip too. 

It isnt strictly necessary but as judges have enormous powers to decide what happens in their demesne it is wise to flag these things up early so you can go armed with the necesary printout of the civil Procedure rules and legislation if they get iffy about this.

it is rare but it does happen so be forearmed. Again there is a report on the Parking pranksters blog where this was a problem but the Lay rep overcame it and you can also quite that as being persuasive. judges rarely like to march out of step and that is a good thing.

you already know that VCVS have lost a load of claims over this site so with luck it wont require a day out anyway but having said that Simon knows he is in the wrong and will throw a lot of resources at claims arising from here to trya dn force some through to create ghis own precedents/persuasive cases so he can then hope to win the next one. as the courts hearing these claims vary he  will know which he can try his luck and which he has to skulk away from. we cant say how likely your court is for either scenario because we dont ahve enough evidence of previous claims

Edited by ericsbrother

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Deputy District Judge Haythorne had a gander at the info and allocated it to small claims, but I don't know whether he'll be  in charge on the day. I can't find anything about him online.

Quote

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DDJ is the lowest rank and a part timer so not necessarily the person who hears the case. have a look through  all the posts on VCS that could have gone to your court and note them. try all of the other motoring forums like MSE and Peppipoo, the searching may find somehting else useful as well so always worth the time.

 

tell your daughter that anything you and she does saves you money so walking away is the most expensive option. Even arguing about the £60 unicorn food tax as the liabilty of the keeper is strictly limited will pay for the day out compared to just coughing up

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dep

Quote

 

Thx Eric's Brother. There was a person on this forum who told me his case was thrown out at the same court because of the contract. I requested more info, but he has disappeared since his case was dismissed. 

I was just wondering whether it was worth whacking off a letter to IPS pointing out one of their members, using their logo, is making a claim based on illegal signage and other issues in contravention of their Code of Practice. Would they lean on VCS to withdraw, do you think?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Waste of time I'm afraid.  It would be like writing to the Burglars' Association to request return of goods stolen in a burglary.

 

The IPC, the IAS and the firm of solicitors that the PPCs most commonly use are all run by the same people - no conflict of interest there!  In fact the reason the IPC exists is because previously the sole association the BPA had an appeals service (POPLA) which actually sometimes found for the motorist - that was too much for the worst spivs who left and set up their own crooked association.

 

Afraid to say that there is no alternative to your daughter creating time to prepare for the case.  I basically brought my son up by myself and know how difficult it is with young kids, but the court won't give a damn about that.

 

From looking at other VCS threads Simon seems in a very litigious phase at the moment so it's best she prepares for this carefully.  


We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FTMDave is correct, the whole system is seriously twisted, and the likes of Simple Simon misuse the County Court as a pressure to force a payment that should never be due, until enough cases are chucked out and maybe Simple is brave enough to try an appeal, and gets tolchocked in a higher Court and it becomes precedent, he and others will carry on. You have put a great deal of effort in and have a very strong case. Its dot those i's and cross those t's time.

  • Like 1

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

 

The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah that was what I was doing till the early hours but then got in a muddle with the evidence, so more blood, sweat and tears today I'm afraid.

Just a funny point - If Simon shows up at the hearing as he lives so nearby, would he be allowed to answer questions on the Claimant's statement since he didn't write it or sign it? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't think he would unless he wrote and signed it, EB will know for sure check up and review what he said about rights of audience.


We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

 

The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

they know their members are the dregs of the parking world, they couldnt attract decent parking co's by being straight themselves so they charge less than the BPA and have rules that mean what they want them to

3 hours ago, anniebattlemum said:

Yeah that was what I was doing till the early hours but then got in a muddle with the evidence, so more blood, sweat and tears today I'm afraid.

Just a funny point - If Simon shows up at the hearing as he lives so nearby, would he be allowed to answer questions on the Claimant's statement since he didn't write it or sign it? 

yes of course he would as all of his employees legally say what he tells them to but he would risk having to bring a toothbrush and clean pants with him as well.

 

as for previous cases, you can of course quote them even if you dotn ahve the full infoo. The date of the hearing will probably do. You could them look at the court lists for that day and see who the likely runners and riders were and then ask for teh results fo those cases. They areall in the public domain, it is just a sod actually finding out where when you arent a judge and get sent the lists automatically

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep done quite a bit of searching with no luck so far for civil case archives. Anyway kissing it goodbye now for a few days as my daughter will hand in the statement tomorrow and I will mail it to the Claimant, so we then see what happens and get her briefed ready. Do they let you know if, for any reason, the other side drop out (faint hope!) or the Judge chucks it out as a waste of his time. He might agree that £185 for 7 minutes equates to over £25 per minute for parking which is quite absurd!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

New problem!

 

The Defence Statement was delivered to the court today and it was discovered that the new baby won't be allowed in the courtroom.

My daughter doesn't have anyone to leave her with and is feeding her herself.

It seems the only way forward is to request a postponement as the court requires you to be present from 10a.m. until 4p.m. on the day of the hearing.

 

I have suggested we wait till next Tuesday as that is the 28 day deadline for the payment of the court fee, and then phone the court to ask whether it's been paid.

Any advice/suggestions?

 

All I can see in the instructions is that you must give the court 7 days notice if you can't attend and the Judge will hear the case in your absence, bearing in mind your statement.

 

As you can imagine, I'm not very happy about this!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...