Euro Car Parks ANPR PCN - overstay - Appeal Rejected - Institute Road, Kings Heath, Birmingham

[davyatsea]

Hi there,

my wife received a NTK for overstaying car park... 'Breach of Terms and Conditions.

She made her appeal to ECP, but it came back rejected.

 

At no time has she identified herself as the driver, just herself as the Keeper.

I know the driver purchased a ticket valid from 1333 and expired at 1733.

ANPR stated that the vehicle entered the car park at 1329 and left at 1808.

So, as the keeper, she is being chased for £60 (discounted) or £100 (full cost for a period of 39 minutes. She submitted an appeal using a template found on a similar website, but surprise, it came back rejected.

 

I have a POPLA code and intend to appeal online on her behalf Its just what category is best to use, and what detail I need to put in the box.

I won't attach any documents to this post, as I'm sure they are similar to most that have been uploaded already.

 

The research i have done so far has led to confusion, hence asking directly.

Only snag is that she has lost the original NTK, so all I have to post (if need be are her letter of appeal and the rejection letter from ECP - both redacted.

Thank you.

[dx100uk]

shame you didn't look here before appealing 

waste of time.

 

please complete this:

 

 

 

[JoeyJoeC]

Not a waste of time, the appeal to the PPC will be rejected regardless, which is what they've done. POPLA is where the real appeal goes. 

[dx100uk]

and they are stated as overtime

find if the signs/PP is in place first.

popla wont rule in favour unless there is an error somewhere.

 

dx

 

[ericsbrother]

without original NTK we cnat help you on keeper liability matters so she will just have to continue as though a keeper liability has been created until we can prove otherwise.

so tell us all about the event

[davyatsea]

he parked in the ECP car park and paid for 4 hours by using the Ringo app.

 

Due to commitments at her work, she was unable to return to the vehicle, or extend her time.

 

The ANPR clocked the car leaving the car park some 40 minutes after the ticket expiry time.

 

The first we knew about it was when the NTK arrived.

She did attach photos of the car park signage to the appeal letter, which I can attach in a minute.

 

Appeal letter attached here, along with reply/reject from ECP.

 

Unfortunately, my wife wanted to save me some work by doing the research and doing this appeal.

 

Seems to have ultimately created me more work in researching before submitting to POPLA.

 

Photos attached.

 

There is one more photo, but I'm limited to size. I will also reply to the thread quoted as the first answer to my thread.

 

ECP Reject redacted.pdf ECP Appeal Letter redacted.pdf

 

Car Park photos of signage attached.

Car_Park_Photos.pdf

 

For PCN's received through the post [ANPR camera capture] 

 

please answer the following questions.

 

1 Date of the infringement 15/5/2019

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 22/5/2019

 

3 Date received 23/5/19 

 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] Not sure as original lost

 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes

 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] Y - have posted earlier in thread

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up Y - have posted earlier in thread

 

7 Who is the parking company? Euro Car Parks

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Institute Road, Kings Heath, Birmingham

 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. BPA

 

Photo attached of signage. I had problems with this image, but figured it out now. Hopefully this helps.

Signage.pdf

 

Just found the original NTK........ At last

ECP NTK.pdf

[ericsbrother]

Ok the key thing here is that there is no method of paying for more than 4 hours so it is an unfair contract.

 

If you read the early bird timings it is a nonsense, likewise the insistence that you read the other signs for conditions

- they either show them here to form part of the contract or they are meaningless.

 

Now with an appeal to POPLA, you are likely to lose becasue they are very limited in what they actually look at as far as reasons for appeals and this may well fall outside their remit but still worth a go as you have appealed the ticket.

 

You will need to look for a court case that is for the same thing- a lack of ability to pay for more time- and quote it in your appeal.

 

Have a look at the parking pranksters web page and blogspot to see if you can search for similar cases, they do exist.

Then you appeal using that as precedent and see what they say.

 

If your appeal is rejected it still costs the parking co money and it is not binding on you so you can decide if you want to continue to fight  or not.

 

to my mind they are on to a loser but we have seen a couple of very peculiar judges decisions recently so defending a court claim is not a one way street but it will cost you little more than just paying up even if you lose so odds in your favour

[davyatsea]

Many thanks ericsbrother.

 

I've just looked and you can pay for 24 hours, so I would struggle on that one.

 

Just a thought though... Checking through, the notice just stated the location as Institute Road, Kings Heath.

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the location should be stated as Institute Road car park.

 

A search of google maps tells me that the road, Institute Road is a distance of 0.31 miles and is not managed in its entirety by ECP.

 

Only in the second paragraph of the NTK is there reference to any car park.

Would I be right in being able to use this in any appeal to POPLA, and also the perceived cost to landowner of overstaying by 40 minutes?

 

I do not believe that this is a fair and proportionate cost for the landowner.

[Mrs O'Frog]

The GPEOL argument is a non-starter. If you include that in any POPLA appeal they will barely look at the rest of it, they'll take it as a sign of lack of knowledge.

 

Bit confused about why the payment was for £2.40, the signs say £2.00. Where does the £2.40 figure come from?

 

 

[davyatsea]

Not sure what GPEOL means?

 

As far as I am aware, the driver (still not identified) would have paid for parking using the Ringgo app, which adds extra onto the car parking charge.

[dx100uk]

 

[Mrs O'Frog]

Ah, okay. Just thought their signs could be shown to be out of date. Would have been an extra bullet.

[ericsbrother]

in short their signs say that you get clobbered if you dont display a ticket, they DONT say that you get clobbered for overstaying.

There is no such condition in the contract to breach so you cnat owe them money for breach of contract.

 

Now if you want to take this simple appeal to POPLA it wont hurt, just use the signage images and that simple statement.

If POPLA reject then it wont harm you anyway but ECP may just drop hands to avoid paying the £27 for your appeal so they dont risk their income stream from those who havent considerd this but then find out later about your success if POPLA agree