VCS PCN Claimform - Broomfield Developements Broomspring Close. S37XA ***Claim Dismissed***

[Geocyper]

Thanks ericsbrother will do as you advised.

 

Hi all,

 

Persuasive Cases.

I am looking for case to help me in my defence, witness statement for Persuasive Cases.

 

Are these cases that have gone to a higher court, or cases that the parking companies have lost at District Judge level?

 

Thanks.

[Gick]

Persuasive cases are ones that other equal status courts have dealt with, and may be used as an indication of what should be resolved. An individual judge does not have to, but usually will follow as it reduces the chance of being challenged in a higher court. If a higher court, i.e. Crown Court or Courts of Appeal have determined , these are known as having set a precedent or may be Stated Cases and MUST be followed.

[lookinforinfo]

EB gave you the Parking-pranksters' blogspot as a reference in an earlier post which gives a whole list of cases that you can quote. In addition the PP has another site that gives a list of cases though it appears to be playing up on my computer at the moment.

Try

http://www.parking-prankster.com/more-case-law.html

http://www.parking-prankster.com/case-law.html

http://www.parking-prankster.com/court-cases.html

 

Reading the actual cases will also give you an idea of how the Court itaself works and helps to show what you need to know.

Don't forget to add on all your costs and breach of GDPR and exemplary damages for wasting the Court's time as well as your own on a case that they had no hope of winning.

[Geocyper]

HI Gick and lookingforinfo,

Thanks so much for your replies will have good look.

 

Another question,

 

I have been srudying the links provided to me.  Do I have to print out the whole persuasive cases I think are relevant to my defence, or do I just site them in my witness statement.

 

Thanks is anticipation. 

[ericsbrother]

You cite them in your WS but you will need to add the whole of the case as far as any report you can find goes and that becomes part of your evidnce bundle. Likewise you will need a copy of the POFA, any planning law you have mentioned and so forth.

No judge is going to hold up the hearing whilst they go and look up some obscure refernce in their chambers.

 

Now the opposition will have to do the same so if they go on about Elliot v Loake then they should supply the whole bit of case law, not just their shortened version that only shows what they want it to show.

 

If the mention that or any other case you get the whole transcript and take it and add it tou your bundle as well so they cant pull a fast one.

 

3 copies, 1 for court(posted in time) one for them ( posted just in time) and one for yourself

 

dont forget to work out copying costs as you will bill them for this as part of your costs.

 

Look up CPR27.14.2(g) for unreasonable behaviour costs orders and have a document will all of your costs already laid out including 5 hours LiP research @£19.50/hr

[Geocyper]

Hi ericsbrother, thanks again you are concise and to the point.

 

 

Iv got 99% of the documentation, I will prints out three piles as you have advised.

 

i would like to ask a question,  

I think they, (no evidence as of yet) are getting people on the complex to put cards on cars.

 

 I am thinking of issuing a summons for the person whom ticked the car (attendant) something smells,

 

all advice apprieciated.

[ericsbrother]

You will be hard pushed to force them to attend as a witness especially of you dont know who it is.

There is a procedure for requesting the court to get them to attend but if you read up on council parking matters you will see it is frowned upon as the person isnt going to say anything helpful.

 

You would be better off finding out who it is by other methods and seek remedy for breach of the GDPR instead as a separate matter

[Geocyper]

Ok ericsbrother, thanks I will look into other ways off trying to find out if this is actally happening. Thanks for your advice.

[ericsbrother]

one way is to park up and wait in hiding with your camera and leap out when someone pitches up

[Geocyper]

Hi, ericsbrother. My friend has put camera vid in window.

 

Good afternoon,

 

I have now completed 95% of my witness statement.  I am getting stuck as to how I arrange the points, evidence.

 

Are there examples how to present your bundle to the court, which I can look at online?

 

Thanks.

[dx100uk]

yes here just search witness statement

[Geocyper]

Hi All.

 

I have to put my Witness Statement 4th October 19, can someone please have a look at this and comment please.

 

Thank-you.

Pages Redact PDF WS VCS.pdf

[ericsbrother]

couple of points to do immediatetly.

 

you have numbered every line rather than every point you are wanting to make.

That makes sense but it may be better then to label each point A, B etc so you can the exampe refered to point B starting on line 23 and it will be obvious that it is a separate argument fro the line above.

 

also the latin term for no right to bring a claim is LOCUS STANDI or locus in standi- get the spelling right.

 

The cases you have cited need to have the reports as parts of your evidence bundle.

 

The other thing I would do is relook at the order you want to present things so it tells a story that flows well so to that end your line 1 onwards should go immediately after line 9 or 17.

 

It wont hurt to repeat yourself to deny being the driver at the time etc if it means that you first give your side of events as a witness and then trash their claim.

 

Currently you have the basic info but it is a bit bitty.

 

You also need to include reference points to all of your other evidence so you will need simple labels for then so lease docs will be annexe M ( somehting that isnt used in the main statement), the signage annexe N and so forth.

 

lastly you need to chuck the kitchen sink in as well so read more court reports and even where the cases are not the same as yours use then if there is a mention of any procedural matter that you want to mention so more POFA cases, anything on trespass and harassment ( there is a big one to cite) and plenty where the parking co issued ticket to owner of land and they had to pay damages. There is one that was a cause celebre on this site a while back so look through old UKPC threads about 4 years ago.

 

[Geocyper]

Hi thanks for your reply and I put, I will endeavour to implement points you have raise.

 

can you please explain what you mean by  “The cases you have cited need to have the reports as parts of your  evidence bundle.”  I have printed three copies each, off all the cases I am going to cite.

 

Thanks

[ericsbrother]

go and find a load more

[Geocyper]

Ok thanks 

[Geocyper]

Also they say that they are nor relying on POFA 2004 Schedule 4, keeper liability because their NTK complies with POPLA ?

 

This is an alleged Contract between the Parking company and Client.

 

 I have redacted what I think I should, if I need to expose some more info I will.

 

Hi shamrocker,

 

They say that their Notice to Keeper and PCN Notice complies with POPLA, so they don’t use it.

 

thanks 

 

Here it is.

VCS Alledged Contract.pdf

[shamrocker]

I'd be interested to see how they're attempting to hold you, as Keeper, liable for something some unknown third party has done.

 

Just reading over your draft WS posted further up.

Is there a particular reason for admitting being present when the vehicle was parked on the site?

[Geocyper]

Hi shamroocker

 

Yes I was with the driver, passenger.

[shamrocker]

Does that really need to be mentioned?

[Geocyper]

Well i have mentioned it, so cannot withdraw it.  I don't think it will count me saying I was there, the driver has disability I was accompanying him to see someone that lives in complex.

Need to make post clear.  I was the passenger.

[shamrocker]

It's not ideal, but I guess it shouldn't really matter if the Claimant is not relying on POFA to transfer liability - they should still need to provide evidence that the driver and the defendant are the same person. You're only telling the truth, I guess.

[Geocyper]

Hi shamrocker,

 

Thats what I thought, no point lying, caught out once case sunk .

 

This is the extract from their submission to the court, POPLA.

 

if it would be better I could post the whole document up.

Reasons POFLA .pdf

[shamrocker]

Ok... so, they ARE relying on POFA - right?

 

The signage is also forbidding, so is not a genuine offer to park. You've probably covered this point within the thread already - I haven't read back over it.

[Geocyper]

Hi, shamrocker,

No they are not relying on PPOFLA because they say there NTK and PCN are POPLA compliant, they are not.  They are just using this argument to get around Keeper Liability.

 

Thanks.