@Zuto / @MoneybarnUK financed car from MK Auto-Motors Ltd refuses to honour consumer rights

[mumof4funnells]

Hello,

 

I'm new here so please bear with me.

 

We brought a car on finance end of November last year from a local dealer, MK Auto-Motors Ltd .

It was a 2014 Mini countryman with 45102 miles on the clock.

 

We contacted the dealers before Christmas with some issues and was told to come back in the new year,  

Such as the fact the car was checked for oil and had none even though it apparently just had a service.

Which they forgot to stamp the book..

 

Also noticing the sales invoice showed the mileage at 45102 and the mot showed it at 45103...

So even though I had a test drive and they got the car from storage yard, the car had done -1 mile..

Amazing that isn't it.. 

The dealer didn't want to know.

 

So we contacted Zuto and after a lot of chasing they said to us is that the mileage is only 1 mile off its human error and nothing wrong and the service was done as the dealer said it had etc. And unless we wanted to prove that it has been clocked etc they believe the matter is closed. 

 

We are paying everything we have into this as we needed a reliable car as we need it for my autistic son as he doesn't bode well on buses etc, any can't afford to pay out on inspections when we believe that surely paperwork not matching proves our point.

 

Fast forward from April to today and my car broke down..

On rac inspection the timing chain has broke!!!!

Car has done 6000 miles since we got it!!

 

Husband rang the dealer who answer was oh, its out of warranty sorry!!

 

We brought the car off Zutos website and our finance is through moneybarn.

Where do we stand?

 

I cant afford the 300 pound a month for another 4 years and cant afford to get it fixed either..

I am hoping someone may know and help before we contact them again.

  Surely the car was unfit for purpose?

 

Thanks in advance..

 

[king12345]

It depends from a lot of factors:

1. Is the timing chain a serviceable item, even by visual inspection?

2. At around 50k miles i would expect the manufacturer to step in for a snapped chain. IMO they shouldn't break on an almost new engine.

3. Was the car sold as fsh? From main dealer, vat registered garage or backstreet/tesco car park mechanic?

4. Did the chain break inside the 6 months?

[BankFodder]

What is the name of the dealer please?

I'm afraid that you seem to have managed to miss certain important landmarks. If a defect occurs within the first 30 days then you are entitled to a refund or a replacement at your option. Unfortunately you didn't assert this short-term right to reject and so you have lost the opportunity.

After that, if a defect occurs within the first six months then you have the right to insist upon a repair and if the repair fails then you are entitled to a refund or a replacement at your option. Unfortunately you haven't taken advantage of this.

The dealer has claimed that a warranty has expired. It has nothing to do with warranties and in fact warranties tend to be extremely misleading because they tend to lull you into a sense that you have no other rights. This is not true.

Under the Consumer Rights Act you are entitled to have a vehicle which is of satisfactory quality – given the price, age, and other relevant factors – and that it remains in a satisfactory condition for a reasonable period of time. On the basis of what you say it seems to me that the defects are serious enough to render the vehicle not of satisfactory quality.

However, you are dealing with a dealer who is clearly unhelpful. I don't know why you haven't told us who he is – but you should do.

You have taken out finance and although you reached out to the finance company at an early stage, they declined to get involved. They gave you a reason and it seems that you accepted this reason even though you don't seem to understand that the finance company has no friend of yours. Your interests are in conflict with theirs.

Under section 75 of the consumer credit act, the finance company is liable to exactly the same extent as the dealer is.

The chances are that you may have to take one or other of them to court. You certainly need to be prepared to do so and be prepared to threaten it in the hope that someone will put their hands up – but if they don't then you will go ahead with your threat. Don't bluff.

You haven't told us how much you have paid for the vehicle. Also, have you sought an independent quotation for the repair work?

On the basis that the dealer is probably going to remain uncooperative then you are probably looking at several months before this is sorted out. The way to deal with it will be to be extremely assertive and aggressive and we will help you if you have the will to do it.

 

[mumof4funnells]

The dealer is MK autos ltd in Milton Keynes.

 

We know the car was serviced by bmw once, as we called to ask but about 2 years ago.

 The car was brought for £10,995 but with finance cost total will be £22,000.. Eye watering amount but again we was pushed into a corner.

I needed a car my mum has terminal lung cancer and I do all the hospital appointments. We thought that we would be safe for a while at least.

 

Again I forgot to mention that although the car had a "service" the rear brakes went and were replaced on the 15th June 2019..

 

We have paid so far in total £2260 in 6 months.

 

I am prepared to fight this!!

 

[BankFodder]

Thank you. Can you tell us who replaced the rear brakes in June 2019? Who paid for it?

One slight problem here is that the amount of money you are dealing with is in excess of £10,000. £10,000 is the County Court small claims limit. When you bring a small claim – less than £10,000 – then even if you lose, you won't have to pay the costs of the other party. Over £10,000 and you will have to pay if you lose. On the basis of what you say here, you have absolutely no chance of losing but on the other hand the fact that you would have to bring the claim on the fast track brings comfort to the other side and they are more likely to employ tactics to intimidate you with the spectre of costs hanging over you in the event that you lose. This is something to take into consideration.

You have two choices. One would be to consider claiming for the refund of the entire price plus any ancillary losses. The second would be to claim for repairs.

On the basis that repairs will be considerably less than £10,000 I think that I would suggest you go for that.

This means that you need to get the car thoroughly examined and get a quote for repairs and generally speaking putting into a proper roadworthy condition.

In fact you would need two independent quotations.

You would then, with our help, enter the pre-action protocol which would essentially threaten the dealer and also the finance company with 14 days to sort it out or else you will bring a court action and without any further notice. You would only make this threat if you decided to go ahead with it. It's not worth bluffing. Both the dealer and the finance company will probably use all sorts of tactics to delay and to prevaricate. You must not allow yourself to get dragged into any kind of protracted discussion. You make the threat. 14 days. Day 15 – you send them the good news.

Once they have the court papers they will then start to realise that you are serious. The finance company will put pressure on the dealer and someone or other will put their hands up.

It's up to you if you want to get involved in this kind of action. If not then I think you're going to have a hard slog

[king12345]

Snapped chain at 50k=I would never trust that engine again.

Unless the work is done by bmw and guaranteed, but this will be difficult as the car has only one service.

[mumof4funnells]

Hello

The cars brakes were done by my husband and we paid for them (he is qualified but no longer in the games as such).

  I think first thing we will call some garages to get quotes etc .

 

I think I will contact bmw as well as it does seem very early, considering the car hasnt done excessive mileage etc 

 

 

Edited June 25, 2019 by mumof4funnells

[BankFodder]

Yes I think getting quotes is a good idea. I wouldn't hang around. As soon as possible. Get the quotes from good reputable people – BMW approved because you want the work done to a proper standard.

You may think that the approach I have outlined above is particularly aggressive – you would be right but over years of experience running this forum it is the only way to deal with these things. You have to take control and all the people you deal with must realise that you are the one that is dictating the pace of events.

Come back here and tell us what you find out about the quotes. At the same time discuss with your other half whether or not you are prepared to go ahead and threaten and then take legal action. There are lots of posts on this forum and especially on the library about bringing a small claim in the County Court. Read the steps. It's very easy but it is worth understanding the route. We will help you all the way including helping you to draft your letter of claim and also your claim form.

You may also want to look at COBS which is a set of FCA regulations which imposes duties upon regulated financial firms to treat their customers fairly. I would suggest that as well as threatening both the finance company and the dealer with a legal action, that you also threaten the finance company with an action under COBS and inform them that when you get a judgement – is usually well – that you will send a copy to the FCA. This is the kind of threat which will concentrate their attention a little.

[mumof4funnells]

We do have copies of all the phonecalls we made to zuto ( voice recordings) about the issues we had since buying the car as well.

 

 

[BankFodder]

Bravo. There's not many people here who can say that even though they've been here for years and you've only just joined us. Read our customer services guide and make sure that in addition to recording your calls, you generally speaking follow that advice

[mumof4funnells]

Just listening to one of the calls from 7/3/19 and my husband mentioned the oil being empty and the brakes and the mileage and the woman said "to me it sounds like the car had been clocked" so everything leading to what happened we questioned and got turned away.. He also checked the tyres and told her it was on 12psi on the day we picked the car up after it was serviced.

[BankFodder]

OK - get the quotes and we'll take it from there.

 

I suggest also that you go through the calls and make notes on each one - to save time later.  Also send the finance company an SAR.  Do that tomorrow

 

I should add, that although the finance company are liable for contractual breaches to the same extent that the retailer is, I'm not sure that they would be expected to exercise any auto mechanical expertise in terms of understanding the significance or the seriousness of the faults that you flagged up to them.  However, we will say that they are expected and leave it to them to rebut the point

[dx100uk]

I am wondering where a section 75 sits in all this..

bearing in mind moneybarn are not the authorities favourite motor finance lender 

[BankFodder]

Sorry, I don't follow. Is there something that I haven't properly understood?

[BankFodder]

I've just been looking at the moneybarn website. I'm shocked at the interest rate. APR 31%.

It seems to me that a better solution might be to explore ways of simply rejecting the vehicle, getting out the contract altogether which would effectively mean that the arrangement with moneybarn would be cancelled. However, you still have the risk or stress associated with bringing an action on the fast track

[London1971]

A timing chain should be good for 200K miles.

 

A timing belt is different, it should be changed according to a manufacturers schedule, the reason why cars have a timing chain is so that it lasts the lifetime of the vehicle, and avoids timing belt issues  It is worth pursuing this with BMW also.

[BankFodder]

I suppose if there is no oil then even the life of a timing chain would be compromised. I understand that they discovered early on that there was no oil

[London1971]

Good point, and BMW might see it that way but it's still worth pursuing,

 

But it's also possible that not having any oil was caused by a defective timing chain, or a broken seal , or something.

 

My current 15 year old banger that I use for my commute, is chain driven Ford Focus, it has been chugging oil for the last 4 years, not even the slightest rattle on the timing chain at 125,000 miles, same with my father's 20 year old Primera.

 

 

 

https://www.mini2.com/forum/second-generation-faults-fixes/345489-timing-chain-problems.html

 

https://www.mini2.com/forum/second-generation-faults-fixes/345489-timing-chain-problems.html

 

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=164&t=1661089

 

 

The internet lights up when typing in Mini Countryman timing chain issues

[king12345]

Most engines (if not all) require the correct oil level to lubricate the timing chain and tensioners.

In fact, on oil change, my car needs to have the oil filter housing manually filled up to avoid the engine running dry for a few seconds when first restarted.

In op's case, there's only 1 service at BMW and the car was sold with no oil in the engine.

I woild try with all my heart to get out of the finance and return the car, at risk of losing some money.

[London1971]

It's terrifying the cost of things that can go wrong on second hand newer cars out of warranty,

I've always spent no more than a thousand on an old car so it's no big deal if it lasts six months and I need to junk it

 

I recently almost went down the same road as the OP and was considering buying a nearly new car with a high APR finance company, similar to them, they were pretty pushy, and I told them I'd sleep on it.  There was just a faint air of disreputability about them that put me off, and I'm happy about that.

 

First thing I would do is write to the MD of the car dealer, and the finance company, explain the problem and ask politely if you can hand the car back and cancel the finance. So far all you've had is some pimply, commission only sales guy telling you that there is nothing you can do.

[BankFodder]

This could be a reasonable cause of action to take while the independent quotations are being obtained. Nothing to lose and at least you have a paper trail shame that you tried. However I wouldn't allow it to cause any delays

[dx100uk]

this is why I mentioned section 75 of the consumer credit act

it does not only apply to purchases using credit cards, it applies to all things inc a HP loans.

that make MB equally liable for selling the item.

[BankFodder]

Okay, – just checking because you gave me a fright. So a section 75 action against MoneyBarn is an appropriate action to take

[dx100uk]

its another way to add pressure to the situation which they must take seriously and investigate

they should/might also pay for rthe inspection etc.

if the cause was no oil then this should be an open and shut case.

 

 

[BankFodder]

Yes this is what I had been suggesting earlier on in the thread but I thought that in your first post here there was a suggestion that a section 75 action was not available in this case.

I think once we get the two quotes and we can look at what we have and decide the best means of attack – although it is absolutely certain that both the dealer and the finance company will be in our sights at the same time