Housing Assoc changed door lock without notice

[ericsbrother]

problem is all the "can"'s and "if"'s dont apply to this individual. The law doesnt say the tenancy will automatically pass to someone who doesnt live there.

It is all very well quoting an organisations guides but of no real use when they arent applicable. it still goes back to the fact that he was never registered as a tenant or joint tenant.

The person had plenty of opportunity to correct the shortfalls in his situation but didnt

[45002]

6 hours ago, ericsbrother said:

problem is all the "can"'s and "if"'s dont apply to this individual. The law doesnt say the tenancy will automatically pass to someone who doesnt live there.

It is all very well quoting an organisations guides but of no real use when they arent applicable. it still goes back to the fact that he was never registered as a tenant or joint tenant.

The person had plenty of opportunity to correct the shortfalls in his situation but didnt

 

Another person who doesn't a clue on lawfully possessions  and succession rights,  I never said "tenancy will automatically pass to someone who doesn't live there"

 

See what OP has to say anyway, if they reply.................................

 

Good afternoon.

Edited July 1, 2019 by 45002
good afternoon

[tallorder]

That's an interesting thread. 

 

HA is in Devon. Council was fully aware of situation, and advised in writing only single occupancy for council tax.

 

Continuously on electoral roll so there is definite first hand evidence. Bank statements, landline telephone bill. Every annual gas / safety check (bar most recent) son was always present.

 

His work was down the road, but since the place closed, he's had to take his skills on the road. Often staying overnight at clients expense - so no receipts for him - both in UK and abroad.

 

As an example - oil rig workers on six month contacts don't pay council tax *unless* sole occupier - as far as I understand it. Surprisingly common for some workers in Devon.

 

He had a two week residential training course the week the changed the locks and a gifted holiday, so will likely have been away three out of the last four weeks.

 

No correspondence was received from HA nor were any substantial answerphone messages - the usual 'Call us back' on a number that is prohibitively expensive on PAYG.

 

He's been asked to call that same number to arrange a call back - £35 for an on-hold message before his credit ran out. 

 

It's all less than ideal and is putting a great strain on the son.

[45002]

Hello tallorder

 

Did the HA post any notices through the door or stick on the door a notice saying they where going to take possession of the property, before they changed the locks ?

 

Do you know or can you find out, how long it was from the mother passing away till HA change the locks ?

 

Someone needs to contact local county court or by telephone and find out did the HA had a valid possession order or not when they change the locks ?

 

And what did happened to All the mothers belonging ?

 

Cheers...

Edited July 1, 2019 by 45002

[tallorder]

No notices were posted

 

The mother passed away October 2018 and locks changed late June 2019

 

The son has contract work, which is still continuing this month

 

He and I have tried daily to call but never get to first spot on queue before other constraints take over

 

No idea about county court, but very doubtful as it seemed to happen after boiler safety check 

 

Is being told to call the HA and last email reply was talk of not being tenant so can’t discuss arrears and advise not paying further rent. They want to arrange collection of belongings and (then?) issue Notice to Quit

 

It’s all getting a bit much for them, so he’s taking a sick day to go to CAB Today. He’s due overseas next Monday until September.

[king12345]

As i said previously the son is not considered a tenant because he's not registered there.

Nothing he can do imo rather than collect his stuff and find another place.

Unless he's ready to break the lock and enter the property, at risk of being arrested.

[Raven1]

Wouldn't he be faced with court action to claim back decades of over paid housing benefit which was claimed as a single occupier by his mother?

 

If he managed to get back into the property that is - or maybe even if he didn't having drawn attention to what is in fact benefit fraud on a grand scale.

 

Edited August 8, 2019 by Raven1

[king12345]

I said that in my other post, but someone here thinks that it's ok to do that and than claim full tenancy rights.

[45002]

13 hours ago, tallorder said:

No notices were posted

 

The mother passed away October 2018 and locks changed late June 2019

 

The son has contract work, which is still continuing this month

 

He and I have tried daily to call but never get to first spot on queue before other constraints take over

 

No idea about county court, but very doubtful as it seemed to happen after boiler safety check 

 

Is being told to call the HA and last email reply was talk of not being tenant so can’t discuss arrears and advise not paying further rent. They want to arrange collection of belongings and (then?) issue Notice to Quit

 

It’s all getting a bit much for them, so he’s taking a sick day to go to CAB Today. He’s due overseas next Monday until September.

 

So No notices posted and know they want to issue Notice to Quit after the HA already taken possession illegal IMHO !

 

Have you told us every think ?

 

12 hours ago, king12345 said:

As i said previously the son is not considered a tenant because he's not registered there.

Nothing he can do imo rather than collect his stuff and find another place.

Unless he's ready to break the lock and enter the property, at risk of being arrested.

 

Rachmanism spring to mind reading someone posts

 

No one ever suggested until till know that the son breaks in !

 

12 hours ago, Raven1 said:

Wouldn't he be faced with court action to claim back decades of over paid housing benefit which was claimed as a single occupier by his mother?

 

If he managed to get back into the property that is - or maybe even if he didn't having drawn attention to what is in fact benefit fraud on a grand scale.

 

 

But OP posted this below so where does benefit fraud on a grandscale come from ?

 

Quote

She had been advised by the council previously that it would be best to pay for a single occupant, even though they were aware of her son

as Posted  on June 24

 

 

2 hours ago, king12345 said:

I said that in my other post, but someone here thinks that it's ok to do that and than claim full tenancy rights.

 

Someone still  does Not understand  How to obtain lawfully possession of a property and  Succession rights !

 

 

....

Edited August 8, 2019 by 45002
quote missed out

[colin11]

When i read the OP,  i got the impression that the locks had been changed shortly after the tennants death but it has actually taken 8 months

That is 8 months that the son hasn't made any contact at all with the HA so as far as the HA is concerned the flat has been empty all that time

 

I have a few questions

 

Has there already been a successsion of the tenancy in the past

 

Why would the council tell the tenant to pay council tax as a single occupancy knowing it was another adults main home

 

Why and for how long was housing benefit paying the full rent despite a working adult living there

 

The poster said that "He and I have tried daily to call but never get to first spot on queue before other constraints take over" so for 8 months you didn't think it was worth waiting a bit longer on hold to actually speak to someone ?

 

As the mother had had the tenancy since 1977 it is possible the son has always lived there, If that is so, How long has the son lived there over the age of 18 and working, That would give an idea of the possible liability they would face if they were prosecuted for benefit fraud

 

As the son or poster have had no contact with the HA in 8 months, They wont know what process the HA have gone through to regain control of the flat, All we can say is it wasn't quick

 

Personally i think the son should cut his losses and go find somewhere else to live,  The deposit on a new flat would be hugely cheaper than a possible prosecution for benefit fraud and the possibility of a criminal record

 

 

[45002]

Original tenancy agreements

 

I wonder if mothers rent was registered under 1977 Rent act

 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1977/42/section/87

 

If it was they may copies of the original tenancy agreements on file along with the registered rent details and application forms which would be very usefully to the Son.

 

Their would have to be a paper search as on line records only go back as far 2008

 

https://ebusiness.voa.gov.uk/err/

or

https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/check-register-fair-rents/search

 

The rent service know comes under VOA https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/valuation-office-agency

 

For E&W, Slightly different in Scotland and NI.

 

...

Edited August 9, 2019 by 45002
url added

[45002]

Their would have to be a paper search as on line records only go back as far 2008

 

Whoops, On line records only go back to 2003

[tallorder]

Tenancy was a secured tenancy from 1977 - I think a rent officer came round and registered appropriately.

 

They found out the rental was before the big changes that wiped out some significant protections.

 

The son became disabled and went off to university, paying council tax, rent share etc while there. 

 

His work year took him away from home intermittently, days, sometimes weeks at a time and on rare occasions a month or so. Part of his studies took him overseas for 3 months / 12 weeks at a time.

 

The whole story revolves around the last time his mother was admitted to hospital *before* the issue that ultimately caused her death after her final / subsequent hospital trip.

 

In the last 2 years before his mothers death he was trying to spend more time with her. She had saved money for a deposit to  purchase / part purchase the flat and told him he was registered. Her organisation skills meant cheques went uncashed, appointments were missed and documents covered in tea / food.

 

Since all this happened (and in part thanks to Brexit) his work has dried up and his business closed. He is now in the process of claiming benefits.

 

The first question - ADDRESS - is stopping him as he no longer knows what to do.

 

Any extra advice would be helpful.