Lost Parking Eye ANPR PCN - S.Mimms court claim - N164 Appeal as my evidence was ignored

[NiteHawk2003]

I recently lost a case which I considered a non issue and need to appeal.

I provided video evidence showing the lack of signage and non visibility of the signs , watching the video , it is clear as day there was no consent to contract.

from the moment I walked into the chambers I felt as if I was being punished for daring to defend myself,

the claimant provided a signage plan which was a complete fabrication , claimant claimed 5 signs at the entrance , there are in effect actually only 2

the first being behind a bush where you have to take your head off the road to see it , the other only visible when leaving,

neither of them on lighting poles as claimed by the claimant.

 

The judge declined my evidence for 2 reasons , the first because the car "never left the car park" , it did , he later agreed to this

the second being the timing , the judge claimed the video was made 2 months after the incident , this is not true ,the video was made a couple of weeks after 

the incident (the radio news broadcast proves this in the background)

 

I need to appeal , I can prove the claimant lied and misled the court by using Google street maps over the last 4 years to show the signage has never been anything like what it claimed but this

would involve bringing in new evidence and the guidance notes are very confusing on this.

 

firstly they say this :

 

"Remember that you must not include any grounds for appealing 
which rely on new evidence, that is evidence that has become
available since the order was made. You may not produce new 
evidence in your appeal without first obtaining the permission of 
the appeal court. (See the notes to Section 4)"

 

Then the guidance notes go on to say

 

"Section 10: Evidence in support
Include here any information you have to support your application 
under Section 9.
State whether you are producing new evidence in your appeal
or asking for permission to produce oral evidence at the appeal 
hearing. You will need to give reasons why the new evidence 
was not before the original court and, where oral evidence is
requested, the reasons why you think it is necessary. You should
sign the statement of truth at the bottom of this section to support 
any evidence you provide.
9"

 

 

Completely confused to how this works , can i put in new evidance or not? If i need to ask permission then how would this happen?

 

as a side note , the images i want to use are not actually new evidance , they were part of a collection of evidance documents in rar format , emailed to the court and claimant in time

but not processed and put in my file by the court

[BankFodder]

I would imagine that if you are able to say that the evidence was put before the court but not considered by the judge and also – as you are pointing out now – that you wish to address the court on the subject of the evidence which the court did either not consider or misinterpreted, then this should satisfy the requirements.

Have you obtained a transcript of the hearing? I would say that you probably need this

[NiteHawk2003]

Not yet and there is no N460 either

 

[AndyOrch]

Thread title amended and moved to appropriate forum...please continue to post here to your thread.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[dx100uk]

you have ofcourse checked the PPC had planning permission for the signs and the ANPR camera poles?

the latter assuming this was an ANPR capture and not a windscreen ticket.

 

who's the PPC and where is this car park?

 

it might be better to fill out out std court claim sticky 

 

and the defence you filed

and both witness statements please

in one PDF only

read upload

[NiteHawk2003]

P Eye and South Mimms

[ericsbrother]

yes please, go back to the very beginning to explain everything.

We will need to know what you put down in writing fro your defence as well as the info on the signage that is contested.

Did PE argue that the signage has chnaged since you entered the land and breached the contract or did they simply state that there were 5 signs when that is clearly not so?

appeals are on either matters of fact or matters of law so if you want to raies the planning issue then that is a matter of law (no contract can be formed) but not raising it earlier will make that a difficult ne to put forward.

It is unfortunately very common for PE and others to just tell out and out lies when it comes to signage etc so look up other cases where they ahve tried the same trick and use that as evidence if possible

[NiteHawk2003]

They did not mention the signs being changed.

 

Google StreetView shows the signs havnt changed since being installed in 2014. 

 

PE claim 4 signs , there are actually only 2 , the large one behind the bush at the entrance and a small one which is only visible when leaving

 

None of these signs are on lighting poles as claimed

 

The video taken from the viewpoint of the driver when entering the car park clearly shows no signage.

 

Judge after dismissing the video took the signage plan as gospel and stated that as the sign was on a lighting pole then there was a 51% chance i saw it....

 

Judge refused permission to appeal based on the grounds that "i had no chance of success" , although he did not fill in the N460 form.

 

At the moment i need to get the appeal in asap With the streetview images showing the Court was misled

 

 

 

[ericsbrother]

you need to argue that the judge misled himself with the matters of fact.

 

you also need to dig up as many other cases as you can where the lack or paucity of signage was the main fcator.

 

As said there are reported cases of PE telling lies about the siting and number of signs at a site so go through all of the court reports on the parking pranksters blogspot.

 

whilst you are about it do you have legal cover on your motor or house insurance?

you can almost force them to take an interest in this if you let them know now that you are appealing the original decision.

[NiteHawk2003]

i like this and i found at least 2 incidents that were similar to mine but is this not introducing New evidence.

 

what i need at the moment is to get the appeal approved.

I can prove PE lied about signage but need to use the streetview images.

 

this is where i'm stuck , asking for permission

 

[AndyOrch]

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part52#52.3

[NiteHawk2003]

6 minutes ago, Andyorch said:

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part52#52.3

 

 

i've read that document back to front all it says about New evidance is 

 

(2) Unless it orders otherwise, the appeal court will not receive—
(a) oral evidence; or
(b) evidence which was not before the lower court.

 

Statutory appeals – court’s power to hear any person
52.25
(1) In a statutory appeal any person may apply for permission—
(a) to file evidence; or

 

Nowhere does it say anywhere the procedure to ask for permission to show New evidance

 

 

[AndyOrch]

CPR 52.3 onwards ....II PERMISSION TO APPEAL - GENERAL

[NiteHawk2003]

14 minutes ago, Andyorch said:

CPR 52.3 onwards ....II PERMISSION TO APPEAL - GENERAL

 

II PERMISSION TO APPEAL - GENERAL

Permission  to appeal

52.3

(1) An appellant or respondent requires permission to appeal—

(a) where the appeal is from a decision of a judge in the County Court or the High Court, or to the Court of Appeal from a decision of a judge in the family court, except where the appeal is against—

(i) a committal order;

(ii) a refusal to grant habeas corpus; or

(iii) a secure accommodation order made under section 25 of the Children Act 1989 or section 119 of the Social Services and Well-being (Wales) Act 2014 or;

(b) as provided by Practice Directions 52A to 52E.

(Other enactments may provide that permission is required for particular appeals.)

(2) An application for permission to appeal may be made—

(a) to the lower court at the hearing at which the decision to be appealed was made; or

(b) to the appeal court in an appeal notice.

(Rule 52.12 sets out the time limits for filing an appellant’s notice at the appeal court. Rule 52.13 sets out the time limits for filing a respondent’s notice at the appeal court. Any application for permission to appeal to the appeal court must be made in the appeal notice (see rules 52.12(1) and 52.13(3)).)

(3) Where the lower court refuses an application for permission to appeal—

(a) a further application for permission may be made to the appeal court; and

(b) the order refusing permission must specify—

(i) the court to which any further application for permission should be made; and

(ii) the level of judge who should hear the Application.

 

Where does it say here "to request permission to submit New evidance fill in Form NXXX and pay £xxxx"

or

"Tick this Box if you are submitting New evidance and give reasons why"

 

All we know is we "cant" submit New evidance without permission from the appeal Court ……..

 

 

 

 

[AndyOrch]

It doesn't.....You dont submit new evidence or old.....you are.simply requesting permission to appeal at this stage.

[NiteHawk2003]

and use supporting evidance to gain permisssion.

 

i can't just say "Cliamant lied" , i would have to demonstrate how they lied

 

[AndyOrch]

N164 Small Claims Track

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/form-n164-appellants-notice-small-claims-track-only

 

Permission to appeal

 

Has permission to appeal been granted? If permission to appeal has NOT been granted please tick the box opposite. I ask for permission to appeal ....Yes..... No

 

http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part52/pd_part52#4.1

 

 

[NiteHawk2003]

Sections 6 and 7: Grounds of appeal and  arguments in support An appeal must be based on relevant grounds (reasons for appealing). An appeal court will only allow an appeal against a decision of a lower court that was either: • wrong; or • unjust because of a serious procedural or other irregularity in the proceedings. The appeal court will be unlikely to overturn a decision where no real difference would be made to the outcome of the case, or the appeal would involve re-examining the factual investigation undertaken by the lower court. Set out briefly and on a separate sheet your reasons why you think the judge’s decision was wrong or unjust. If possible, list 

8
your reasons in short separately numbered paragraphs and indicate you have done this by ticking the relevant box. Remember that you must not include any grounds for appealing which rely on new evidence; that is evidence that has become available since the order was made. You may not produce new evidence in your appeal without first obtaining the permission of the appeal court. (See the notes to Section 9) 

 

 

 

So i can only put in an appeal on grounds that require me to supply New evidance if i ask permission first.

No where does it say how this is done

 

 

[AndyOrch]

So i can only put in an appeal on grounds that require me to supply New evidance if i ask permission first.  Yes

No where does it say how this is done Complete Form N460 and attach it to form N164

 

On the N164 tick .... I ask for permission to appeal ....Yes.

[NiteHawk2003]

Really not sure where Your going With this.

N460 is for the judge to fill out when he refuses an appeal. He didnt fill out an n460. the N460 does not exist in my file

 

i can ask for permission to appeal.

i can show grounds for an appeal and give evidance that has already been used

I CAN NOT SUBMIT NEW EVIDANCE WITHOUT FIRST ASKING PERMISSION TO SUBMIT NEW EVIDANCE

Nowhere does it say how to ask for permission to submit New evidance

 

I think Your confusing asking permission to appeal With asking permission to submit New evidance

 

 

[AndyOrch]

There is no need to underline and bold sentences Im quite capable of reading your points.

 

Did you ask for permission to appeal at the hearing  ?  If not then he would have no need to complete N460

 

I would just complete the N164.

Has permission to appeal been granted? If permission to appeal has NOT been granted please tick the box opposite....No

I ask for permission to appeal Yes 

 

And in box 8 explain that evidence has come to light or become available since the hearing which was not available at the time.....do not refer to it as new evidence.

 

 

N460...Note: The appellant must file a copy of this completed form at the appeal court with the appellant’s notice when issuing the appeal.

[NiteHawk2003]

i asked for permission at the hearing , permission was refused as "i had no chance of success"

 

The Judge has not filled in a N460

Ive made so many called to the Court regarding the N460 that i risk being Arrested for harrassment.

 

if i say "evidence has come to light or become available since the hearing which was not available at the time" , do i included it With the n164 as supporting documentation or wait for the appeal

 

 

[AndyOrch]

41 minutes ago, NiteHawk2003 said:

 

i asked for permission at the hearing , permission was refused as "i had no chance of success"

 

The Judge has not filled in a N460 

Ive made so many called to the Court regarding the N460 that i risk being Arrested for harrassment.

 

if i say "evidence has come to light or become available since the hearing which was not available at the time" , do i included it With the n164 as supporting documentation or wait for the appeal

 

 

 

Yes include it as per Box 8 instructions.

[ericsbrother]

as with all of these things you chuck the kitchen sink in and hope that you are ganted the right to appeal and then the new judge will  decide what you can and cant use so until it is actually rejected you go for it and argue all points that you possibly can.

 

When your judge told you that you coulndt appeal it meant that he wont hear it again

( as the first stage of an appeal will be at the same court)

 

so if you are saying that he misdirected himself then it is possible he could reconsider the point you say is wrong and decide that you were right after all and no-one else has to pay a small fortune to turn up and start all over again.

 

This is where you need plenty of persuasive or compelling examples so he is persuaded that he did lead himself down a blind alley.

 

Now where the Beavis decision was important as far as procedure goes is the decision of the lower court was made by HHJ hegarty, who always found in the parking co's favour but those decisions were generally ignored by other judges even though he outranked them and others are supposed to consider his decisions as being binding. The next court went with Hegarty partly because of his rank making it almost impossible not to do so.

 

So you need to know what rank your judge was, the lowest being a Deputy District Judge and also look at his CV and see who he worked for beforehand and what sort of cases they handled.

 

if he was once in house counsel for Capita there would be a strong claim for a lack of independence in his decision making!

[NiteHawk2003]

Interesting , where would you get that info from ?