CEL 2xANPR PCNs -ambourne house , bridge cross road Burntwood ws7 2bx

[Grease monkey 1234]

Hi , 

i have been reading on your site about other people’s pcn been given out and been cancelled. 

 

Im new to all this and never had a one before but from reading on this site the car park is poorly signed . 

 

I got a ticket the other day and was two minutes over my free 20 mins

 

I used the car park again the next week and got another one 4 mins over my free 20 mins

got both pcns at the same time through post . 

 

Is there any leeway on being over a couple of minutes late ? 

 

Any info would be useful as I haven’t replied to these letters yet 

[ericsbrother]

as you have read some of the threads perhaps you have come across the term "grace period".

 

This allows you a minimum of 10 minutes to park up, read the signs put money in the meter etc

plus if you are stuck queuing to get out after parking then that time doesnt count as the contract is for parking, not waiting.

 

Now dont be in a hurry in wanting to appeal, Star parking is run my a couple of people whose name doesnt appear on the list of directors at Companies House and are well known to us and judges ocross the land.

 

Can you post up scans of the letters you have received and tell us the exact dates and times of the events and the exact dates you got the NTK's (charge notices)?

 

If the place is local to you then pictures of the entrance to the land from the public highway and any signs at the entrance plus any different signs in the car park itself will be telling.

 

these people do have a habit of suing motorists, adding extraordinary imaginary additional charges and then dropping the claim when you dont wet yourself and pay up.

 

again this is known by the courts system so you can end up having a chat with a judge in chambers about what they think of it all as you work out your expenses for their no show.

 

However, we dont want it to go that far normally so the above info will help us help you knock this on the head.

[dx100uk]

Please complete this for each pcn

 

 

[ericsbrother]

 a quick streetview look at the entrance, there is a sign on the wall that says pay at machine , see signs for details.

 

that is what is known as an "invitation to treat". If it was a contract them they are stuffed because there is no mention on that sign about nay of the core terms they wish to rely on so they dont exist. now the good things about invitations to treat is they dont bind you to the offered contract so you can park and decide to reject the con5tract on the signs, you have already been invited in.

 

The standard explanation of an invitation to treat is as follows. I run a clothes shop and outside have a big sign saying "50% off most items". Now you come in and try on a pair of trousers and ask how much? i say that they are not in the sale and you decide not to buy them. the offer of the signs outside merely invites you in to have a look, inspect the goods and make further enquiries botu the offer and then if you like what I am selling agree terms ( sale offer or no sale offer) and pay me and I give you the item. Neither of us are bound to the contract until the money is in the till, I dont ahve to sell you stuff at 50% off and you arent forced to buy a pair of trousers just ebcause you tried them on. I cant charge you for heat and light for them shop when you dont buy anything.

 

the same goes here, you didnt accept their offer and left. if you had fed the machine  them you become bound by the terms (usually the blurb on the parking meter)

 

These peopel are too thick and too greedy to care about the law, they hope to scare you into paying up. Bit like me following you home and threatening you through your letter box about not buying trousers so owe me money.

[Grease monkey 1234]

Hi , details as follows :

 

date of infringement 30th may

 

date received 10th june

 

letter does mention schedule 4 protection of freedom act 2012

 

two photos sent of car entering and leaving carpark

 

i have not appealed 

 

sign says star park at bottom as company website

 

car park is called lambourne house , bridge cross road Burntwood ws7 2bx

 

body running site iS bpa , it says on bottom of sign 

[dx100uk]

images removed

please don't post large images directly to posts

use PDF 

read upload

 

[Grease monkey 1234]

FE499A8C-69E2-4D9A-9F00-8F3B570A546F.pdfFE499A8C-69E2-4D9A-9F00-8F3B570A546F.pdf

Hi , I attached letters as described 

[ericsbrother]

notices not POFA compliant, they havent even bothered to try and get it right.

note that they say that CEL is the creditor but Star parking are the company that offers the contract.

There is no third party liability and I bet the landowner doesnt know that Star have shunted the liability to CEL.

 

If Star have obtained your keeper details they cant pass them on to CEL and  if CEL have obtained the details then as they dont have a contract they have obtained them without reasonable cause so in breach of the GDPR.

 

You need to write to the DVLA and ask who obtained your keeper details, when and what was the reason stated.

There is a particular office this enquiry should be addressed to and if you send the request elsewhre they will try and avoid giving you a straight answer.

 

DO NOT APPEAL, not now or ever with this company, let them spend their money on chasing you, they are dishonest so will ultimately get thrashed by you later but for the moment you keep quiet and get all of your info collected.

 

So we need to see the signage in close up.

As there is at least 3 differetn signs you will need to look for all different versions and make a note of how big the signs are and where they are located.

 

We also need pictures of the ticket machine and associated blurb

[Grease monkey 1234]

On 18/06/2019 at 14:03, ericsbrother said:

 

Hi , I have now added photos off entrance and signs and machine 

Saved_Photo.pdf

[ericsbrother]

Ok the last picture is the sign I saw on Goggleyes so that is either the contract and it is too vague to offer anything or it is an invitation to treat and all other signs can be ignored. First signs says CEL, the rest say starpark. 2 companies cant run the site  and I bet that the landowner hasnt given authority for one of them to act as an agent to the other

 

Now when it comes to payment there is no mention on the machine anything about paying anyone a heap of cash for anything so again it makes the other signs redundant.

 

The contract is formed when you feed the meter because that is the only time it can be proved you agree to the terms (or you wouldnt feed it).

 

CEL like to go as far as issuing court claims but then drop it if you dont wet yourself and pay up. they havent attended court for years and when they last did got absolutely chewed up over forgery and lies.

[Grease monkey 1234]

Did a check aswell on bpa site and they come back with this New Note.pdf

[ericsbrother]

Yes,  that can be used to hit them where it hurts later on or if you want to sue them for breach of the GDPR.

 

Now you might want to ask the DVLA who has accessed your keeper detaisl and why and also ask the council if Starpark have planning permission for their equipment and signage.

 

The BPA CoP state that their members MUST have all permissions even though POPLA doesnt recognise that PP is needed for anything. If they dot have the permissions then they are in breach of the code and that means they have lied to the DVLA to use the KADOE system, hence the breach of the GDPR.

 

If Starpark are garnering info for CEL that is a breach of the GDPR and KADOE contract as well, even if it may be allowable under the contract with landlord (unlikely)

[Grease monkey 1234]

Hi , thank you for all the info so far , I will contact the Dvla next to find out where they obtained my details  from . I’m unsure now what to do as my 14days is due up and appeal against it or leave it ? I guess I will have more letters from them threatening court action? 

 

[dx100uk]

post 8 by EB......

 

DO NOT APPEAL, not now or ever with this company, let them spend their money on chasing you, they are dishonest so will ultimately get thrashed by you later but for the moment you keep quiet and get all of your info collected.

[lookinforinfo]

And don't worry about losing the discount either -you won't be paying them a penny-just follow dx100 and EB's advice 

[Grease monkey 1234]

Update , I have now received the next letter from CEL and uploaded for you . 

I am still waiting for reply off the council about the camera and permits . 

The bottom of the letter worries me about sending third party agents now . 

Please advise cheers . 

Saved Photo.pdf

[dx100uk]

how much power has a DCA got in the uk?

 

 

[ericsbrother]

as their claim to create a keeper liability when there isnt one is a lie why would you worry about a smaller lie about third party agents?

If your bird of prey you keep for fox hunting attacks them there is no liability on your part unlke your dog biting them. In NI you can keep a lion without a licence and cats being wild animals are again not your responsibility if they bite a doorstepper.

[Grease monkey 1234]

Update from the council about the ANPR camera now 

Saved Photo.pdf

[ericsbrother]

ANPR is NOT security so the bod who went round there is using the wrong part of the law for their interpretations and as for referring to a CP for parking- what has that got to do with planning law?

 

What they mean is  "we cant be bothered" but YOU need to be certain of what is there and if the cameras are not affixed to the buildings you take pictures and show us.

 

Now what about planning permission for their signs and machinery?

If you approach the council by asking the question in the wrong way you will get an anodye answer like they dont need permission.

 

You simplay ask " do they have permission for their signs" and not  do they need it or have they applied for it.

if they respond that they are deemed consent that tells you they DONT have permission and not that they dont need it because most councils cant be bothered to chaeck which of the 21 different categories these signs come under and even if CEL are in the wrong they cant be fined or prosecuted, just told to remove them

[Grease monkey 1234]

Ok , I will email the council again ask a few more questions.

i have also attached pictures of the camera on the building as u enter the car park 

Saved Photo.pdf

[ericsbrother]

no you dont ask more questions, you ask just the one and get a yes or no answer.

 

I dont care about cameras on buildings, that doesnt help you one bit, it is signs, parking meters and cameras on poles that are of interest.

 

However, that cable looks as though it could be badly positioned and could easily be damaged which would be an electrical hazard.

 

Ask the landowner for sight of the  electrical test cert as they are responsible for making sure it is properly tested on installation.

 

What you need is some newly qualified jopbsworth to come and cut the thing off in the name of health and safety.....

[Grease monkey 1234]

Reply from the council 

Saved Photo.pdf

[dx100uk]

grr they are not adverts junior ..

[ericsbrother]

why do you think we say to ask the specific question " have they got planning permission" rather than asking anything about any other aspect of planning law.

 

you must undersatnd, the person responding to you isnt qualified to do so, they are a CS person and wont have even rested their coffee cup on the 2007 Act, let alone read it and that is why they say the advert regulations rather than quopting the exact aprt of the Act that applies to deemed consent for advertising hoardings etc.

 

I will tell you for free what si permitted- your house number, bus stops and signs giving the name of the stations on the railway. Everything else is open to fulfilling other requirements to remore the need to applying for planning consent.

 

The consent wuld be free of charge for their stuff but they just cnat be bothered to apply because the council might just say NO and then they are stuck with a contract they cant perform and wouildnt that be a shame