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keek

Setting aside a ccj - defence sent to wrong court

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Morning 

just to update I posted a letter through to the claimant this morning as advised and she has replied in A text message . This is the reply ....

 

 

Good morning ,  as I explained to you last week. I have been in touch with the court, I have also phoned them, Monday just gone. The clerk went over your previous letter with me. I have been instructed, to call, the court back this Friday. I have not been able to write to you again, due to me having a very bad flu virus. And unable to go out. I will call the court back now, please will you refrain from pushing letters through my letterbox, I am asking you to keep off my property. Please send any letters, the correct way, as I do with you via post, I will inform the court that I have requested this off you.  Thank you.

 

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Its no use ringing the court...an application has to be made with fee using the N244 to request further directions.Well done on posting the letter you have your side covered.....let her keep digging the hole deeper....the court will advise you of the next stage.

 

Andy

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Just to update 

the claimant had sent me a screenshot of 3 cctv experts in a whatsapp message. No other content.

 

 

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Do you know them, or can you look them up to see if they're appropriately qualified to produce the report? 

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She’s not picked any from the list I sent but Yes i know of them and I’ve looked them up and they are qualified. 

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6 minutes ago, keek said:

She’s not picked any from the list I sent but Yes i know of them and I’ve looked them up and they are qualified. 

 
Ok so this part is up to you then. If you’re comfortable with her proposed experts pick one (that you think will be best/fairest/impartial) and tell her that you agree to that one. 
 

She then needs to send you a copy of the letter of instruction for you to agree before she sends it to the expert - tell her this too. 
 

EDIT - if you’re not happy with any of the experts you’ll need to tell her that, and ask her to propose some more or pick one from your list.  Ideally you should explain why you’re not happy with them. 

Edited by SuperVillain

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Thanks for your reply 

I’m happy to pick one from the list she sent she’s just being awkward. 

 

Just to clarify do I need to send her any instructions for the expert to check over or just amend the ones she sends to me if needs be? 

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I would give her until Monday to send you instructions and then you’ll have a day to tinker with them if required.

 

She should do it (she started the claim) but if you haven’t received anything from her by Monday afternoon I would do one yourself and send to her.  
 

Or if you’re happy to do it then feel free (she may well disregard anything you send and she’ll probably kick off again about having to agree the instructions with you, but it is what it is, the court ordered a joint expert so she’s stuck with it).

 

In case this expert isn’t used to writing reports for court cases it might be worthwhile reminding them of the appropriate part of the Civil Procedure Rules - Part 35 and Practice Direction 35 - in the instructions. This is from Practice Direction 35:

 

Form and Content of an Expert’s Report

3.1 An expert's report should be addressed to the court and not to the party from whom the expert has received instructions.

3.2 An expert's report must:

(1) give details of the expert's qualifications;

(2) give details of any literature or other material which has been relied on in making the report;

(3) contain a statement setting out the substance of all facts and instructions which are material to the opinions expressed in the report or upon which those opinions are based;

(4) make clear which of the facts stated in the report are within the expert's own knowledge;

(5) say who carried out any examination, measurement, test or experiment which the expert has used for the report, give the qualifications of that person, and say whether or not the test or experiment has been carried out under the expert's supervision;

(6) where there is a range of opinion on the matters dealt with in the report –

(a) summarise the range of opinions; and

(b) give reasons for the expert's own opinion;

(7) contain a summary of the conclusions reached;

(8) if the expert is not able to give an opinion without qualification, state the qualification; and

(9) contain a statement that the expert –

(a) understands their duty to the court, and has complied with that duty; and

(b) is aware of the requirements of Part 35, this practice direction and the Guidance for the Instruction of Experts in Civil Claims 2014.

3.3  An expert's report must be verified by a statement of truth in the following form –

I confirm that I have made clear which facts and matters referred to in this report are within my own knowledge and which are not. Those that are within my own knowledge I confirm to be true. The opinions I have expressed represent my true and complete professional opinions on the matters to which they refer.

 

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Contact the court and see if there are any further directions...I cant decipher that writing.

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Hi. The issue here is that she insists that you send everything via post and this all needs to be sorted by Wednesday. 


Her moan about the timescales is neither here nor there. You’re having to instruct a joint expert because the last report she went and got herself was substandard.

 

Shes shot herself in the foot with the comments about not involving you in the instruction of the expert. 
 

I would write back to her and agree the expert you want from her list, and that you wish to see a copy of the instruction letter to ensure that it is appropriate. Tell her that If you do not see the letter before the expert is instructed, this will not constitute a ‘joint instruction’, and you will raise this with the Judge at the hearing.

[Going by some of the earlier comments in this thread the expert at least needs to be directed to consider whether the equipment currently remains in place as installed or if it has been moved/altered/disconnected].

 

Someone else may come along and say otherwise but I’d be reluctant to hand deliver after she’s told you not to... just send it by post and see if she comes back to you.

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If I send it by post would it not be too late ? by the time the instructions are checked and sent back we will be past Wednesday, it’s stupid I’m passing so I just post any letters though. I don’t hang about , she really is petty . 

 

I will write her another letter tonight . Thanks for the replies 

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this is how I read it:

 

“I explained to you fully in my letter dated 18.11.2019 that the Judge gave instructions for you to pick some experts and that you send them for me to look at.  He did not instruct you to ask me to write you a draft of instructions for you to ask the expert.  If I could not choose a name that you sent then I was asked to pick some names and to send them to you if you cannot pick one from my list.  I had to call the court back on 5 Nov.

 

You took 19 days to choose and from you posting your list through my letterbox you only gave me 4 days.  To be correct it was three days as I could not reply on the same day, that being 18 November.  This is why I called the Court for further advice.  I let you know that I was due to call the Court back this I have done twice.

 

I then took ill so I have not been able to get out of bed.  I have called the Court back today.  I have explained fully that I have requested that you do not come near my home again and to do the things the correct way as I have done all through, via the Postal Service.  I do not use Outlook.com as you suggested.  

 

I have picked 4 experts for you to look at, the Judge did not say you must instruct an expert with a draft from myself. 

 

I would like you to choose a name from these 4 experts. I will then instruct them to visit my home, using only the Judge’s orders in Num 1.  If you do not agree to any of the experts by 4 December I must phone the Court by 4pm the next day.”

 

First class, should get there Monday. 
 

I don’t think she’ll send you any instructions to review anyway. 

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Yes that’s about it , other than she’s put the wrong date it should be 5th Dec not Nov. 

Edited by keek

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Re posting vs leaving at her address see Civil Procedure Rule 6.23, which I take to mean you can leave documents at her address BUT, given that she’s told you not to enter her property it could possibly be trespassing:

 

(4) Subject to the provisions of Section IV of this Part (where applicable), any document to be served in proceedings must be sent or transmitted to, or left at, the party’s address for service under paragraph (2) or (3) unless it is to be served personally or the court orders otherwise.

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I’ll post it in the morning, Not into upsetting old ladies , really don’t know what her problem is or why she would start all this off anyway .... mind boggles! 

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Just to update.

I’ve not received any more letters or the instructions requested from the claimant. 

 

As an expert has not been jointly instructed what is likely to happen now? 

The judge did say he would find it difficult to make a judgement in the case without the expert report. 

 

I understand she now has to phone the court tomorrow by 4pm for further directions , should I also call or just wait to receive them by post? 

Many thanks 

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The order says the Claimant has to make an application for further directions (calling the court won’t do she needs to fill out the court form and pay the fee etc).

 

Ball’s in her court, you’ve done as much as you can do and covered yourself in writing.

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Thanks for your reply 

She might have instructed an expert and not told me as I did agree to one in the letter . 

 

If she doesn’t make an application for further directions will it be thrown out or will the claim still be heard on the 1st May? 

 

Suppose it’s just a waiting game now. 

 

 

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Ok I can see where you’re coming from. Maybe write to her and ask her if she has instructed an expert (if so you need to see the instruction letter) or made an application to court for further directions. 
 

If she doesn’t respond within a week then we’ll have a think.

 

I’m torn between you instructing an expert or just leaving it be. If no expert gets instructed so we get to May and there’s no report, then you risk the judge being critical of both of you (but you have all the stuff you’ve put in writing on your side). So I’m inclined to just leave it and do nothing, but keep writing to her to ask what is happening. 

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Hi 

Received a note today from the claimant. It reads ,

 

I am sorry that at the moment I cannot reply as I phoned the court on 2nd Dec and I have been instructed to call back later today Friday 6th Dec for further instructions. I will be in touch soon. 

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So what's she been doing since Friday, I wonder?

 

HB

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Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, honeybee13 said:

So what's she been doing since Friday, I wonder?

 

HB

 

Digging the hole deeper

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Hi 

Received another scrawled letter this morning , 

 

just to to inform you that I am still waiting for further instructions from the court. 

 

Please would you you provide me with a copy of my letter, where you have stated In your letter to me , dated 29th November 2019 , 

that my recent letter states I do not wish for you to instruct an expert or make an independent report on our behalf? 

 

You also state that in my letter I also do not want your input in the Instructions letter to the expert. 

Please forward a copy of my letter stating this to you. 

 

Please forward where the judge states that I had to forward a written draft letter to you, with the instructions for the expert? Also where it states I needed to send you a copy for you to check to see if it’s appropriate. 

 

Please would you send me the copy of my letter, sent to yourself, where you state , I have written all the above instructions to yourself . 

 

Guessing she’s not kept a copy of the letters she has sent me. Oh dear! 

 

 

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Oh dear indeed.

 

See what the experts say, but I wouldn't be in a rush to help. I'm not a legal guru. I wonder why the court haven't told her?

 

HB

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Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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