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keek

Setting aside a ccj - defence sent to wrong court

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Update 

Attended court today for the hearing. Claimant attended also. The judge said he couldn’t make a judgment based on the evidence the claimant had given,

he told her the evidence she submitted was inadmissible and that she hadn’t followed directions.

 

He’s ordered an expert report on the system and to attend another hearing in around 8 weeks.I’ve no problem with the order for an expert report

it will only prove the system does work ,but I can’t understand if her evidence is nonsense and can’t be used why it’s not been thrown out? 

 

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Did her councillor friend attend  ?  

 

I told you her evidence would be inadmissible...so sit back let her organise the expert witness.

 

Andy

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Hi Andy , 

yes she attended as ward councillor and moral support . 

 

The claimant did her self no favours today, The judge was unimpressed with the amount of paperwork she had served. She had to be told to stop using emotive language on a few occasions.  

It only lasted 20mins. 

 

He asked if I would compile a list of experts and then decide between ourselfs who we use and we split the cost. 

 

she wasn’t happy. She didn’t conduct herself very well at all. 

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Just out of curiosity could I have objected to having an expert report and had the claim dealt with there and then? 

 

Just feel a bit annoyed that I have to sort the expert and pay half for the privilege when the claimant hasn’t followed the directions which the judge made clear to her today.  

I was just hoping today would be the end of it either way 😔

And thank you for the links , much appreciated it really is , would have been in a right mess if not for your help. 

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You could of but I doubt the judge would have accepted it.Did you not advise the court that you are a fully qualified CCTV installer ?

I agree he could have ruled today and could clearly see the claimant has made a total hash of her claim.Instead he has thrown her a lifeline whereas he should have imposed sanctions and simply struck the claim out.

 

Now you are being put to the inconvenience to help prop up her claim and justify your own defence

 

Please note the upper limit for experts’ fees that can be recovered is £750.

 

SO 8 weeks to sort this...she does not appear to be too amicable so it should be fun the pair of you agreeing an experts report.

 

 

https://keoghs.co.uk/keoghs-insight/aware/expert-evidence-small-claims


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Hi Andy , 

Yes I told him I was qualified I think that’s why he asked me to compile the list of NSI certified cctv installers for us to choose from. She said she wasn’t happy about this but the judge told her it would be the only way to progress the claim and she agreed. 

 

I didn’t think about it at the time  but she took the DVR to court yesterday so she has pulled it all out , now I’m thinking it’s not going to be inspected as it was when I left it .

 

The way she conducted herself yesterday was shocking so....

Yes it’s going to be a nightmare to get her to agree on anything. 

 

Also so did a little research on the councillor , found a newspaper article from 2016 about her using council resources for her personal gain and had to pay monies back to the council purse. 😡 

 

 

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she took the DVR to court yesterday so she has pulled it all out

 

 

So how can you possibly do an expert report ?  Was there any kind of guarantee provided when you installed it  ? Surely thats also invalid now if there was ?

 

Disregard the councillor its irrelevant and not party to the claim.

 

Keep a tab on your costs here...application fees...loss of income...possible expert fees. 


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No there was no guarantee or warranty given on the installation but the equipment had a standard 12 month warranty which has now expired. 

I only though about it properly last night although she didn’t show the judge the DVR she definitely had it in court yesterday. 

 

 

 

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You really should have informed the judge yesterday...then he would have struck this nonsense out.

 

The only way forward now I see is to do nothing...and come 8 weeks time the judge has no option to dismiss because both parties have failed to provide....or make a further application (without hearing) £100 requesting it be struck out due to this new discovery.

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I’m sure the judge knew she had brought the dvr box with her , she did say she had brought it and it was on the desk , that’s why I never said anything in the hearing it’s only when I got home and thought about it more.

I’m kicking my self now! 

 

 

I’ll see what the directions say and go from there but if I do ignore them and the claim is struck out would that be it?

Would I still be able to claim my cost back?

 

Ive got a feeling she’s not going to comply with these directions anyway as she hasn’t with any of the others. 

 

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Costs order, surely?

 

”Wasted costs” (rather than “costs”)  is more applicable to someone who has faced costs due to their solicitor’s error, and is seeking an order against their own legal team, not “against the ‘other side’ “

Edited by BazzaS

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Hi 

Received the directions today regarding the expert report . 

 

Not sure about the best way forward .

I’ve no issue with the installation and cameras being checked everything was done as it should have been. And the expert should back this up , My only worry is the dvr. I know she had it in court. She could easily break it if she wanted. 

 

If I fail to comply what would be the worst case scenario? 

I don’t want her to get away with it she’s malicious and a liar! 

 

 

 

order 71119.jpg

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In what way are you considering failing to comply?

 

Why on earth would you wish to fail to comply?

a) the directions seem “standard”

b) the directions seem reasonable

c) the court is, in effect, saying “the court isn’t an expert in CCTV, and the case hinges on if the installation was good quality or not, so the expert opinion is key to reaching a just decision” : isn’t that what you want?

 

If the report gives information that you feel reflects the situation at the time the installation was inspected that doesn’t reflect the quality at the time it was installed : you deal with that by way of a written question.

You have the advantage that any written question you raise is formulated with your :

a) knowledge of CCTV in general, and

b) knowledge of the installation.

 

Why risk the advantage you have that the report shows how unreasonable the claim is by you not complying with directions?. The “worst case scenario” of failing to comply is the judge awarding judgment for the claimant as the ultimate sanction!

Edited by BazzaS

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Morning BazzaS, 

I was just going off the advice in a previous comment #61. 

 

Thanks for your reply , much appreciated .

 

I am going to sort a list of experts today and forward them on to the claimant for her to decide which expert she wants to use.

What do I do if she doesn’t want to cooperate? 

 

Do I need to send the list of experts to court also ? 

 

 

 

 

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On 10/11/2019 at 09:43, keek said:

Morning BazzaS, 

I was just going off the advice in a previous comment #61. 

 

Thanks for your reply , much appreciated .

 

I am going to sort a list of experts today and forward them on to the claimant for her to decide which expert she wants to use.

What do I do if she doesn’t want to cooperate? 

 

Do I need to send the list of experts to court also ? 

 

 

 

 


Send the list to her. In your covering letter/email, emphasise that the experts are independent, and  give her 7 days to agree one of the experts, and have a draft of the instructions to the expert to you by 22 November for you to approve.

 

 If she instead kicks off then ask her to send you a proposal for who she wants to use as expert - you can then check them out and see if you’re happy with them.

 

 

Edited by SuperVillain
More info
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