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    • Hi all   Firstly, thanks for all the helpful threads on here. Whilst there's a lot to read and get through, it's both helpful and reassuring to see so much great advice and support to others in similar situations.   I've received a letter and a Claim Form from Moriarty for an ADCB CC debt. I'm presently in a DMP for existing UK debts and (probably like many others) I truly don't know the best way forward, as time is clearly of the essence - but I don't feel I've 'up to speed' yet on all the other threads, advice, lingo etc. to respond accordingly.   I'm looking at drafting the PAP and getting it of tomorrow, but just want to get into the other threads to see if it's the right thing (and get more info on similar cases).   Please feel free to comment with any advice - all gratefully received of course. Thanks again for anyone that's posted in other threads and great to see so many kind and generous respondents helping others.
    • nothing you can do can product against the very rare judge lottery syndrome.
    • not sure why you added the blue line I've highlighted? that's no in the we gave you.   as for your question... PRAC's roboclaim computer knows when the account was taken out, after all it raised the claim and checked everything carefully first before issuing the request via northants bulk courts equally inept roboclaim computer... 
    • I've been researching in preparation of compiling my particularised defence/WS.    I'm none too happy that some judges still seem to be siding with DCAs and seemingly brushing aside anything that we have assumed to be "necessary" for DCAs to have a winning case.    Reading a recent "summary" from another poster (another thread with case similar to mine - very old, illegible application form, no default notice, reliance on their own software to prove it was ever sent) and the judgment made in favour of the DCA and even suggesting that there was no "agreement with the DCA, they simply owned the debt, not the agreement"  Makes me very nervous.    Especially if cases like this will be judged on "probability" - the probability that if I signed the original application form, then I must have taken out the credit card and racked up the alleged debt as shown in statements enclosed in their WS (and dated some ten years later).   Is it ok to post some "evidence" I've found from elsewhere?    This is in line with my fears that regardless of how hard one tries to rebut the "lack of evidence" produced by DCAs for chasing these very old "alleged" debts, it does appear to come down to the luck of what judge you get on the day and how much they can be swayed by the DCA solicitor.    A quick Google search produced the following - from one case - this related to a credit agreement - which resulted in someone being made bankrupt - that person appealed the bankruptcy order on the grounds of defective credit agreement and default notice and this was the appeal judge's decision:   The necessary formalities for the entry into the regulated consumer credit agreement (which related to the debt in issue) were not complied with; The default notice served in respect of that credit agreement was defective.   The First Ground The Appellant argued that she did not receive the terms and conditions when she entered into the credit agreement and, accordingly, section 61 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (“CCA”) had not been complied with and the agreement could not be enforced. The agreement had been entered in 1995 and, whilst it had provided a microfiche copy of the front page of the application, the Respondent had been unable to provide a copy of the terms.   Despite the terms not being produced, the District Judge had found that, in the circumstances, it was very likely that such terms existed and would have been provided to the Appellant when she entered into the Agreement. Mr Justice Mann held that this was a finding that the District Judge was entitled to make.   Further, Mr Justice Mann found that it was implicit from the District Judge’s findings that she considered that the terms and conditions not only existed but had been subscribed to by the Appellant’s signature and, consequently, the requirements of section 61 CCA were fulfilled. Mr Justice Mann held that this was also a justifiable finding which should not be interfered with on appeal.   The Second Ground The Appellant also argued that the default notice upon which the Respondent relied did not comply with the Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notice) Regulations 1989 because it stated the full balance of the account rather than the total of the missed payments. The Respondent argued that, as a result of the missed payments, it was contractually entitled to the entire balance subject to the service of the appropriate notice, a requirement which was fulfilled by the default notice itself and, consequently, the sum required to remedy the breach was the entire amount.   Mr Justice Mann agreed with the Respondent and the District Judge, holding that: “If by the time the default notice is served circumstances have arisen which entitle the lender to recover not merely sums which might be regarded as arrears, by which I assume is meant accumulated minimum payments, but also the whole of the sum, then they are entitled to claim that sum, and the sum to require to remedy the breach for non-payment of that sum is the payment of the whole sum due. The bank is not confined, at that stage, to claiming merely the amount of arrears if it has an accrued contractual right to have the whole of the sum.”   Do judgments like these not mean that a lot of what you guys do on here (and for which I and many others are VERY grateful) somewhat redundant. What is happening to judges just accepting "well, the terms must have been there if you signed it" -    Feeling quite nervous now.
    • we know it wasn't done to avoid enforcement we understand completely. but that doesn't take from away the fact that it happened   you can't appeal the pcn's on the basis that 'it was not his vehicle to levy upon'. the law clearly states otherwise.          
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keek

Setting aside a ccj - defence sent to wrong court

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7 hours ago, keek said:

Thanks for getting it back on track.   Could you advise on what to expect?

Is this hearing just to get it set aside then I would attend again to defend the claim?Or will all of it be dealt with there and then. 

Many thanks again just want to make sure I’m prepared. 

 

Well it depends on a few variants......

 

Assuming he allows the set a side and If she does not turn up to the hearing he may deal with it in one hit...so have your defence and all paperwork (and your costs in defending the matter and making an application) ready and to hand, he could dismiss the claim there and then...and award you costs.

 

if she does turn up and the set a side is allowed ....he may still try to sort it there and then...assuming she is prepared with her paperwork and has submitted a statement in objection to the set a side.

 

Its down to court resources and if they have time.....if not the claim will them move to allocation...and you will be notified of the trial date and directions on how prepare.

So...down to the court and judge.

 

Andy


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Hi 

Another update 

I attended court today and the judgement has been set aside. Thanks for the help! 

 

He said I will receive a letter to resubmit my defence but as I have already done this he said just to acknowledge it has already been sent . He also said there will be a small claims hearing and if I win the claiment must pay my costs. 

The claiment didn’t attend today. 

I update more when I have received the letter. 

Many thanks for your help getting it set aside. 

 

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Standard directions....check with the court on the 2nd Oct that  she has paid the hearing fee...if not the claim will be struck out.

 

If she has the trial goes ahead on the 30th October...and the directions you must follow and prepare for and file and serve are points...6 to 11 of the directions.

 

Witness statement and evidence (documents)  File and serve not less than 14 days pre 30th October

 

Andy

 

 

 

 


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Hi , got another update yesterday .

 

The claiment has sent me some paperwork .

It’s her claim again but written out as the judge required ,

 

Will this be the one used in court or the first one she sent ? 

it hasn’t come from the court it has come directly from her . 

 

It states she has sent evidence and photographs to the court but I haven’t got or seen any of it , all I have is 15 pages of ranting and it’s really hard to read as it’s handwritten.

 

Should I also receive all evidence she plans to use at the hearing ?

She has got the electrical man to sign and date his letter but he hasn’t written “I believe this statement to be true” at the end.

 

Does she have to ask for permission to use an expert as a witness? 

 

Also she is claiming for the court fees even though she sent it to the wrong address to begin with. 

 

She is claiming for £40 in photos which I haven’t seen and £70 in postage costs. 

 

She is also claiming for high court enforcement of £150 and £350 in court fees , if it has been set aside how can she claim? 

 

She says she hasn’t taken litigation or threatened court action to any cctv company’s and has sent evidence to court , again I have not got this or seen it . And she told me numerous times she had taken the big company to court and won. 

 

She has sent a me witness statement from her local councillor on council letter headed paper . This is new I’ve not received this before yesterday . 

 

In text messages I received on the 20th sept the claiment says

 

“ councillor S**** my friend came last night she said the same as me , the cameras are a lot clearer than the ones ***** put in.” 

 

In the witness statement from the councillor for court she says she visited the claiment in September 2018 and the images are

 

“blurred and fuzzy , you could not make out the images there was white orbs in the picture”

 

 

The claimant said the councillor will be attending the hearing. 

 Thanks for reading any advice is appreciated . 

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Hi Keek

 

I will run through all the above nonsense with you on Monday.

 

Andy

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As per the directions laid out within your upload s of post # 29 it specifically states what is required...a witness statement from each party and all the documents you wish to rely on.

 

Obviously she has not followed the directions or has trouble reading and interpreting what it directs.

Mr Councillor is not party to the claim so has no involvement nor can his statement be used.

 

Point 13 states that no permission is granted for expert witnesses unless requested on receipt of the directions.


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Posted (edited)

Thanks Andy, 

Thats what I thought thanks for confirming. 

Should I give a reply to the letter I received the other day? I’m not even sure what it is if I’m honest it’s just headed “lies” theres no points to it ,  it’s just repetitive ranting. 

And Do I need to inform the court I haven’t received her evidence and that she wants to use the councillor as a witness or do I just sit tight until the hearing?

 

It says in the directions the claim will be struck out if the claimant hasn’t filed a properly completed application by the 2nd Oct. 

As it’s not been written out correctly and I have not received her evidence Could it be struck out altogether? 

 

 

Thank you 

Edited by keek

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Probably not relevant but just looked up the councillor on Facebook seems she is friends with the man who has done the inspection report on the cctv system I fitted . Had an idea that the report he did was fishy! 

Just makes me so angry 😡 

 

 

 

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No you dont respond...its irrelevant and not what the court directed.

It isn't time for her to serve you any evidence on you yet or you on her .....must be done by 15th Oct.

 

It states the claim will be struck out if the claimant does not pay the hearing fee...see below.

 

This is what you have to do now......wait for the 2nd October and at 3.55 ring the court and check she has paid the hearing fee of £80.00. (Point 2 of the directions)

 

You must draft and serve a witness statement from yourself in support of your defence with evidence( Thats your disclosures) and this must be filed with the court and served on her no later than Tues 15th October (Point 9 & 10 of the directions)

 

Do everything by the book and on time as advised....she will lose herself along the way...if she fails to comply with the directions the claim will be struck out.


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Hi

Just to update , telephoned the court this afternoon and all the fees have been paid but

I’ve had no correspondence since the letter I received on the 19th August. No evidence , photographs or anything. Although she does state in that letter the court has all of this?

Im just confused why I haven’t got it and how I am supposed to reply. 

 

Should I just reply to the response pack I originally received ? And forget about the letter she sent on the 19th August ? 

Many thanks 

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And you wont get anything yet your not due to exchange evidence and statement until 15th October ?

If you dont receive yours by the 15th inform the court.

 

Did you not read my post #36 ?


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Hi Andy 

thank you for the reply . 

Yes I read your post ... so do I just resubmit my defence from the original claim? 

She has just thrown me off abit with the second lot of paperwork she sent on the 19th August . Going of the letter I think thats her evidence as She apologises to the judge for filing the 1st one incorrectly even though this one isn’t correct either , and there are the added witness statements and receipts I never got with the first one. 

Apologies if I’m asking repetitive or obvious questions your help and time is much appreciated , thank you 

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so do I just resubmit my defence from the original claim? 

 

No .....you are submitting a witness statement with evidence (Documents/disclosures) from yourself.....completely different to a defence.

 

Have a look at some examples for content and layout on various threads.

 

Andy

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Hi 

received this note today with some photos of txt messages from the claimant .

 

There’s no claim number on any of what she has sent ?

 

 Do I take this into account and reply or just ignore it for now?  

 

Is this her witness statement along with the other letters she sent in August after we had it set aside?  

 

I’m sooooo confused 😐 

 

IMG_8087.jpg

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Have aread of the directions again (PDF 2 Post #29) number 10 on how a witness statement should be prepared and laid out complete with a statement of truth.....the above is none compliant and IMHO is inadmissible...which you should make reference to in your statement.

 

However gather everything she has sent to you and try to put it into something of chronological order.

 

Andy


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Thank you for the quick reply , yes I have read them  I’ve uploaded the first page of my witness statement  just a draft , I’ve tried to keep it all in chronological order and only facts and stick to 1 point per paragraph. 

 

I’ve started to sort the claimants paperwork but it’s all over the place , no order to any of it . 

Suppose that’s a good thing for me though! 

Would I reference the non compliance at the beginning of my statement? 

 

 

 

2019-10-08_125201.pdf

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At the beginning and a general synopsis of how the claimant has conducted herself through out this claim.

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Hello , Another update .... 

 

I filed the witness statement with court and the claimant on 14th October as requested on the directions.

 

Today I got some more documents from the claimant tilted “reply to witness statement “ and dated 18th October , 

 It’s contradictory from the other documents she has sent me over the last few months and the “story” changes in certain places from the previous documents .

 

Again she states she has sent evidence to court but I haven’t received it.

She says she’s had numerous conversations with the court and they are aware of the evidence. 

 

She also says the councillor will be attending the hearing as a witness, is she allowed?

 

Also  just Wanted to check that I don’t need to reply to anything else and just wait for the Hearing on the 30th?

 

Just worried in case I miss something. 

Many thanks . 

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He cant attend unless the court has granted permission by a hearing...did she tick additional witness besides herself on her DQ ? 

Any evidence not served on you cant be relied or used in court.

 

You dont file and serve a Reply to Witness Statement ...only her first one will be allowed.

 

Nothing for you to do except attend the hearing...you can work out out all your costs dealing with this claim and get a figure ready.

 

Andy

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Hi Andy 

If DQ is directions questionnaire then she has not sent one? 

The only documents I’ve had are handwritten ranting other than the original claim still

addressed to my work that came from Salford court plus a few dodgy photos that have clearly been messed with. 

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Parties are told on the DQ and expected to file and serve on each other......Ring your court and tell them she has not served you her copy and you want to know how many witness,s she stated at D3 and has she informed the court she intends to call a further witness?


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Thanks for your time Andy .

should I have sent a DQ ? I’ve just looked them up. I’ve not seen one before now?  I didn’t send one with my witness statement. And I’ve not received one from the claimant. 

 

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Correct...this was a default judgment set a side...some courts dispense with the need for DQs and just issue Directions.So she definitely wont be allowed to call a witness.

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