NatWest/Shoosmiths Claimform - OD debt[s] +£12k

[StevieD1]

I wonder if anyone could give me advice.

 

I was in a very volatile relationship which ended some 9-10 years ago.

When I left we were saddled with a load of debt.

I had some mental health issues at the time and to be honest buried my head in the sand and hoped it would go away.

 

Fast forward to a few years later I started to get demands for payments.

I really didn’t know what had been paid and what hadn’t.

 

I had a few demands from the Northants CCBC with claim forms for CCJ.

Each one that I received I acknowledged and paid until a large one arrived that I couldn’t afford to clear.

 

I ended up with a CCJ which is now off my credit file and was satisfied and paid in full.

I’m just starting to get things sorted and a few years ago took out a subscription with ‘check my file’ to monitor debts and get sorted so that I had no surprises. 

 

Today I have received a claim form from Northants CC business centre with NatWest as the claimant and Shoosmiths as the contact.

I have genuinely not had any prior information about this debt and it has not appeared on my credit file with any of the credit reference agencies.

 

The debt is >£12k and there is no way I can afford to pay this.

I am assuming that this was from a joint bank account that my ex ran up towards the end of our relationship.

I assume from what I’ve read that I cannot claim statute barred if my ex has been marking payments to this.

 

I have never received any details and I’ve never had any contact from NatWest or Shoosmiths about this debt so the claim for a CCJ has come right out of the blue.

To complicate things further a few years ago my ex contacted one of my family claiming destitution and from what I was told was really suffering with mental health problems. He said that he was paying off some joint debts and asked for help.

all that I could afford was £100  month which I agreed to pass through an intermediary to help him with this. 

 

As I stated above I am just starting to get back on my feet,

I’ve had a promotion to a director role and was just starting an application process for a mortgage.

 

Is there anything at all that I can do to stop me receiving another CCJ and having to start all over again for another 6years.

I can not afford to pay the total amount but if the £100 that I am passing to my ex is towards this debt I can pay that direct.

 

I really didn’t know about the debt and genuinely had been checking every month across all of my credit files with all agencies to make sure things like this never happened.

 

I don’t know if my ex has acknowledged the debt but I certainly haven’t.

If the £100 that I am paying him was towards this debt could I get out of the CCJ in any way.

 

I am absolutely desperate and cannot begin to think how I will cope trying to build my credit profile back for another 6+ years

. I would be really grateful for any help or advice that anyone can give me. 

[dx100uk]

please complete this:

 

 

[AndyOrch]

Hi and Welcome to CAG Stevie.

 

If you would read the following link and then copy and paste the Q,s and your responses back here so we have all the information in one post...then we can advise further the best way to proceed.

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/357877-you-have-received-a-claim-what-you-need-to-do-updated-jan-2019/

 

 

Regards

 

Andy

[StevieD1]

I’m hoping I’ve attached this correctly... 

In order for 

 

Name of the Claimant ?

National Westminster Bank, Bishopgate

 

Date of issue – 11 June 2019

 

Particulars of Claim

The defendant (D)  held the accounts as listed below with the claimant (C).

 

D failed to pay the sums due to C when demanded and the sums listed below remain outstanding

[this is followed by two account numbers for the sums £1750 and £9750

 

What is the total value of the claim? £12'116

 

Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC ( Pre Action Protocol) ? No, I haven’t received anything 

 

Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? Yes on a number of occasions. 

 

Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? No, I always kept the electoral role updated but I had significant mental health issues for circa 3-4 years following the separation from my then partner who was a joint account holder. I started to receive demands for all manner of things and cleared these as they came in. 

Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account?

i think the claim is a bank overdraft but I genuinely don’t know for sure. I was certainly part of an overdraft and possibly a current account, loan or credit card. 

 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? I really can’t be absolutely certain. I split from my partner in 2010/2011 so most prob it would have been after 2007

 

Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? I think post

 

Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/ Equifax /Etc...) ?

NO I’ve checked all both active and closed accounts and it’s not in any of them. 

 

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. It says that the claimant is Nat West with correspondence addressed to Shoosmiths LLP

 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? NO

 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? NO I didn’t receive anything that I can recall and I have been pretty forensic about credit as I’ve been trying to build it. I did have a CCJ that was applied in absence. I paid this and it came off my credit file in 2018

 

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Default sums” – at least once a year ? No

 

Why did you cease payments? 2010/11

 

What was the date of your last payment? I’ve not made any payments but my ex partner may have. As per my previous post, my ex contacted a family member and to summarise I agreed to pay him £100 per month as he said he was dealing with joint debts. I have a record of these payments. 

 

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? Only dispute between me and ex, I don’t think there was a dispute with NatWest

 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? We did right at the beginning. I think my ex started up a plan to pay but as I said I was I’ll and if I’m honest buried my head in the sand. But after that initial 2-3 years I became much better and started dealing with my debt as it came my way. When I was served the CCJ I then started to actively search the credit reference agencies to deal with everything that was outstanding. None of this appeared on my files. 

[dx100uk]

both numbers in the poc are in the format of...sort/account number

just to check 

 

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform.
.
 register as an individual
 note the long gateway number given
 then log in
.
 select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.
.
 then using the details required from the claimform
.
 defend all
 leave jurisdiction unticked.
 click thru to the end
 confirm and exit MCOL.
.

 get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors [if one is not listed send to the claimant]
https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/332546-legal-cpr-3114-request-request-for-information-when-a-claim-has-been-issued/
.
type your name ONLY

no need to sign anything
.
you DO NOT await the return of paperwork.
you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform [1 in the count]
 

[StevieD1]

Hi All,

 

reference the above CCJ claim.

 

I have registered with the money claims on line and ticked the relevant boxes as you advised.

 

I sent the template letter as advised and I’m yet to receive a reply.

I’m at the deadline now and really don’t know wheee to go from here. Please could someone advise ASAP. 

 

As some background context that I’ve subsequently found out:

 

as per my initial email, I am passing my my ex partner  £100 a month for what he described as joint debts. I do not have any contact with him and this is done through a mutual friend. The friend has a full audit trail of all payments.

 

Once I received this CCJ claim I asked my ex some questions about the above as it was never a debt that I had reminders, chasing or featured on my credit file once I started monitoring it.

 

He said he doesn’t know which debts that he is paying as he has gone via payplan as a debt management arrangement and he adds my £100 to his £69 each month and they split between the debts. 

 

As before I am totally desperate not to have this CCJ as I’m just starting to get back on my feet following another CCJ from 6 years ago.   

 

Kind Regards

Stephen ohen 

[AndyOrch]

Well your defence was due last Friday by 4.00pm..I suggest you get one submitted now otherwise you will get a DEfault Judgment.

 

Can you ex not confirm that this debt is being paid  as part of the DMC through PP ?

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Example defence edit to suit

 

Defence

 

The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim vague and are generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

1. The Claimant has not complied with paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) Failed to serve a letter of claim pre claim pursuant to PAPDC changes of the 1st October 2017.It is respectfully requested that the court take this into consideration pursuant to 7.1 PAPDC.

 

2. Paragraph 1,I accept that I have jointly held a current account with XXXXXXXX Plc. I have not serviced this account since XXXX due to the punitive charges and interest being applied which made the account untenable and impossible to facilitate. The amount claimed is far in excess of any agreed overdraft limit with Lloyds Bank. I deny that the account exceeded an agreed overdraft limit due to overdrawing of funds and claim that this is a result of unfair and extortionate bank charges/penalties being applied to the account. It is therefore denied that I am indebted for any alleged outstanding residue.

3.Paragraph 2 is denied I do not admit to defaulting on payments nor receiving Notice served under 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974 Demand /Recall Notice and the Claimant is put to strict proof to evidence any breach.

4. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

The claimant is also put to strict proof to:-.

(a) Provide a copy agreement/facility arrangement along with the Terms and conditions at inception, which this claim is based on.
(b) Provide a copy of the Notice served under 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974 Demand /Recall Notice and Notice of Assignment.
(c) Provide a breakdown of their excessive charging/fees levied to the account with justification.
(d) Show how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed.
(e) Show how they have complied with sections III & IV of Practice Direction - Pre-action Conduct.

5. On receipt of this claim I immediately requested documentation by way of a CPR 31.14 request, which was received by the Claimant on the 7th July 2014. The Claimant has failed to comply with this request. Therefore the claimant in their non compliance to my requests have frustrated my attempts to clarify their claim and against pre action protocol should be considered when the question of costs arise.

6.By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

 

 

[StevieD1]

Thanks all, unfortunately I received the judgement in default this morning.

 

I had asked my ex to confirm that the debt was being paid as part of his debt management plan and passed on the details so that he could go via payplan or direct to Shoosmiths which he didn’t do.

 

The best I got was an sms to the person that passes my monies on confirming that NatWest were part of the debt that was being serviced.

 

I do appreciate all of the support that you gave me with this and I would be happy to make a donation. 

[StevieD1]

Hi again all,

now that I’ve calmed down a little I’ve been advised to ask for your help again.

 

I’m currently servicing all recent debts of personal loan, 2 x credit cards, overdraft, next account and phone contract which includes a loan as it’s an O2 refresh. I’ve got historic debts which include the one in this thread which is now a CCJ by all accounts.

 

Now that I’ve had judgement passed in default I’m assuming this means I have a current CCJ.

The claimant Shoosmiths and NatWest have been receiving payments to this debt via my ex through a paypal DMP which include a payment from me that is passed from an intermediary to him every month.

 

I’ve been rather naive and stupid as clearly there isn’t any record they have of me servicing the debt.

I do have proof in the electronic payments that are passed to him every month and a number of SMS messages that my intermediary has kept.

 

Some questions:

 

1. Is there anything at all that I can do to reverse the CCJ that was given by default?

 

2. If there is nothing that I can do to reverse the CCJ I am thinking that my best option would be an IVA or Bankruptcy and lump all of the debts together once and for all. I’m assuming that if I went down either route I would also have to include all of my current debts that I’ve listed above and that I’m currently up to date and paying at least minimum payments.

 

please if you could give me some advice it would help as I’m currently sick with worry and it’s starting to impact on my mental health again. 

[dx100uk]

do you own your own home?

 

[AndyOrch]

You will get a judgment by default if you didn't submit a defence as advised in post #8 above...you didn't even respond to my post. #7

[StevieD1]

No i don’t own my own home.

I didn’t respond to the post #7/8 as I had contacted my ex and asked to make contact with Shoosmiths to inform them that I was making payments.  

 

Hands up that I messed up and as I said both naïve and stupid and underestimated the speed of the default judgement.

 

If there isn’t anything that I can do about the CCJ then I’m kinda screwed for 6 years again.

Therefore, if it stands and can’t be reversed my thinking is that being lumbered with the CCJ means no mortgage and credit Hx back to zero so last resort thinking IVA or bankrupt but need to check my employment contract.

 

Apologies that I didn’t respond, it wasn’t that I ignored advice I latched onto the comment of “could I not your ex not confirm that the debt is being paid as part of the DMC through PP” as it seemed cleaner and faster but now realise I should have done all of it. 

[dx100uk]

hey stuff happens.

 

if you don't own an asset then a DRO might be a good bet for you.

[London1971]

If you can steady the ship, it certainly won't mean no mortgage for 6 years, even if you don't pay the CCJ.  After 6 months you are already in sub prime mortgage with a big deposit territory (25%).  I was in that situation, and had to be patient,  until my newest CCJ reached 2 years old, and was able to put down 15% deposit, albeit at a higher interest rate.  But thinking long term I can remortgage in a few years, hopefully when all this Brexit BS is settled.

 

As for my CCJ's, I agreed a 50 ppm payment, and will all be satisfied by this time next year.  It is important to note that I waited for the Claimant to contact me for CCJ payment. With Lowell taking 2 years to contact me. 

[StevieD1]

Hi All,

 

Cheers for the reply’s.

 

Just a bit of advice if anyone can..

. you mentioned a DRO which I’ve looked at.

 

My debts are more than £20k when I take the historical ones in.

I had a house that I had to leave due to breakdown of abusive relationship it was sold with £66k negative equity.

I now have this CCJ for £13k and a few other bits and pieces historically.

 

My current debts that I’m servicing are 4 x credit cards with £3k, £2.5k, £1.25k and £2.5k.

I have a lendable loan with £6.5k outstanding and another marbles loan with £1k outstanding.

I also have a £700 overdraft with my bank.

 

I earn a good salary with circa £4K per month net.

 

Whilst I know that this is a very good salary I have £1k rent (2 bed terrace on commuter route so nothing extravagant), household bills, council tax, travel, living and marital maintenance that I pay my ex wife of £1.2k. I don’t have much left after debts and I’m drowning.

 

I can’t sleep with worrying someone will knock on the door or I’ll get evicted (I’m a very good tenant and fully up to date so unlikely but worry) and won’t find another place as I won’t pass financial reference.

 

If anyone has any advice please do respond.

I stupidly thought that I wouldn’t get any CCJ etc as the historic debts are all over 8 years old and I’ve had no contact with them since but clearly I was wrong as the one in this thread was 8 years and I had inadvertently been paying it as detailed above.

 

So if there is nothing that I can do about the ccj is IVA or Bankruptcy the better options?

[dx100uk]

dro is your best option as detailed in its link

don't do the others.

 

why not wack out a few CCA request .

 

 

 

[AndyOrch]

DRO is 20K limit.

[London1971]

You're on 4 k per month, no landlord is going to evict you !

[StevieD1]

I think the DRO is for £20k max as someone has commented, so I was going to contact one of the debt charities like stepchange to discuss IVA or Bankruptcy.  

 

I will send off the CCA requests to others.

 

Is this the same template for mortgage arrears?

I have enact chasing me for the £66k shortfall on interest only mortgage from 8 years ago that I’ve not acknowledged or paid anything against. 

 

Is it worth contesting the CCJ and Shoosmiths - NatWest?

 

I have now stopped passing the £100 to my ex so should I (if I can’t contest the CCJ) contact Shoosmiths and start paying the CCJ as I don’t want bailiffs at my door, although I think my most valuable assets are two TV’s that are now 3-4 years old. 

[dx100uk]

they would need to go back to court to use bailiffs and even then they have no powers of forced entry on consumer credit debt.

 

as for the shortfall it could well be statute barred

start a new thread in the home repo forum. about that.

 

as for the iva etc, pers i'd run the CCA requests first THEN look at your situation with regard DMP's etc.

some might not be able to comply.!!

 

[AndyOrch]

12 years for the mortgage shortfall with regards to limitations and you cant use a CCA request on mortgages over 25K...they were unregulated.

[London1971]

Correct me if I am wrong @Andyorch it's 6 years for mortgage interest and 12 years for Mortgage Capital. The OP had an interest only mortgage.

Edited August 6, 2019 by London1971

[AndyOrch]

But they are not chasing mortgage interest...chasing the capital shortfall  after repossession ...just because its an interest payment mortgage is irrelevant

[London1971]

Ok thanks for that,