Caught using Zone 1 & 2 Travel card... I live in zone 5!

[surfwalkersteve]

Hello all,

First of all i'd like to say thank you for all of those that contribute to this forum. It has proved very useful and interesting reading whilst fretting about my situation.

This morning I was caught using a Zone 1 & 2 Travel card. I live in Zone 5. I was coming from zone 5. I've been doing this for about 2 years. Today was the first time I was caught. 

It is inevitable that I will be paying a fine, I've come to terms with this. Does anybody have any idea how much it will be? A solicitor friend told me the max it could be is £1000 and thats only in very rare cases. 

Could anybody shed some light on this and confirm if this is correct?

I haven't had a letter through the post yet, when I do I will scan and upload it onto here.

Steve 

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

It's possible your lawyer friend is right about £1000 being a high fine, it's certainly more than the ones we've seen here recently. You may also get a criminal record, depending on what offence TfL charge you with.

 

By all means post up the letter, which can take up to 6 weeks to arrive. Make sure you take out your name and address first please. We'll try to guide you on how to word your letter once we know what the issues are.

 

Can I ask how they knew you were travelling from zone 5 with the zone 1 and 2 card?

 

Best, HB

[surfwalkersteve]

Thanks for replying!

When I was stopped today I fessed up and told them (Initially i said I was travelling from a station in zone 1, they said something along the lines of are you sure about that? we have ways of checking).
I'm most worried about them back-dating the payments as I've been doing this for a while now, which also leads me to believe they will summon me to court, although I'd much rather either plead guilty by post or settle out of court. 
Safe to say I won't be doing it again!!

I've asked for them to send the letters to my work so I can action them straight away. 

 

[BazzaS]

Do they know about the 2 years worth of travel?.

Will they have records of the Z1-2 cards for the 2 years?

Do they have your home address (even if you've asked for the letters to go to your work address)?

 

If so, not hard for them to "connect the dots". If they ask "how long have you lived in Z5? You've been buying Z1-2 cards....." don't get tempted to fib...

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-37494501

 

So, you might get asked about a single occasion of not having a valid ticket when asked (Bylaw offence), which stands a good chance of an administrative settlement, to "intent to avoid your fare" (Regulation Railways Act 1889), to the much less likely (but still possible!) "fraud by false representation" (see the BBC News link, above), if they see it has been deliberate, sustained, and decide to go great guns.

 

if they don't ask about previous travel, you don't have to tell them. If they do ask: best to be truthful, but confining your answer to what they've asked.

So, if they ask "Did you make similar trips in the preceding month", you can say "yes". For discussion sake, say you made 20 trips in the preceding month, and 450 in the 2 years :If they ask "how many similar trips did you make in the preceding month", you can say "20", but don't have to say "but it was 450 in the 2 years!", unless and until they ask......

[surfwalkersteve]

Do they know about the 2 years worth of travel?.

 

No, I told them it was from the turn of the year.
 

Will they have records of the Z1-2 cards for the 2 years?

Unsure, I've paid for some on different cards over the course of the past two years. And even then theres been a few weeks where I've used my debit cards to tap in/out as opposed to using a weekly Z1&2 cards. I buy them from differenc
 

Do they have your home address (even if you've asked for the letters to go to your work address)?

They do. I asked for them to send any letters to work as opposed to home, they took my home address as well though.

Fingers crossed they just went for that guy in a big way because he's a barrister, although this has really shaken me up as our stories are somewhat similar.
EDIT- although upon googling it looks like he was saving £20 a day rather than my saving about £20 a week.

 

Edited June 6, 2019 by surfwalkersteve

[surfwalkersteve]

Do they know about the 2 years worth of travel?.

 

No, I told them it was from the turn of the year.
 

Will they have records of the Z1-2 cards for the 2 years?

Unsure, I've paid for some on different cards over the course of the past two years. And even then theres been a few weeks where I've used my debit cards to tap in/out as opposed to using a weekly Z1&2 cards. I buy them from different ticket machines as well which should make it harder to trace... hopefully
 

Do they have your home address (even if you've asked for the letters to go to your work address)?

They do. I asked for them to send any letters to work as opposed to home, they took my home address as well though.

Fingers crossed they just went for that guy in a big way because he's a barrister, although this has really shaken me up as our stories are somewhat similar.
EDIT- although upon googling it looks like he was saving £20 a day rather than my saving about £20 a week

[BazzaS]

"Will they have records of the Z1-2 cards for the 2 years?

Unsure, I've paid for some on different cards over the course of the past two years. And even then theres been a few weeks where I've used my debit cards to tap in/out as opposed to using a weekly Z1&2 cards. I buy them from different ticket machines as well which should make it harder to trace... hopefully"

 

Paper weekly cards, or loaded onto the same Oyster?. Of course it only matters what they ask you about, but it might give you reassurance as to what you might expect in their letter ...

[surfwalkersteve]

Paper weekly cards, or loaded onto the same Oyster?. Of course it only matters what they ask you about, but it might give you reassurance as to what you might expect in their letter

Only ever paper tickets.
I think realistically I'm getting a big old fine & a mark on my record, the question is how much will the fine be. Luckily I have a bit saved up so it shouldn't be anything TOO preposterous.

[surfwalkersteve]

UPDATE- This is the letter I have sent to Southeastern trying to get an OOC settlement.

Dear Sir/Madam,

I apologise unreservedly and sincerely for having the incorrect travel card for the appropriate zones in which I was travelling. It was a grave error of judgement for which there can be no excuse.

I am willing to hold my hands up and accept that I will be facing a very large fine for my actions, I would like this matter to be kept out of the courts if at all possible as it would put my career in jeopardy, this is especially troubling as I have only just started a new job. I admit I have made a huge mistake and can ensure it will not be one I intend on repeating. The matter has already caused me a great deal of stress and anxiety, it happened yesterday and I haven’t slept a wink. I would like the matter to be resolved as quickly and smoothly as possible and I will co-operate with any course of action you choose to take.

I realise the severity of my actions and once again I would like to apologise for them. I do not wish for this matter to waste any more of your resources and valuable time and don't want to trouble the courts with this incident. I fully realise the severity of this matter and am willing to immediately pay the outstanding fare, any administrative penalty and any administrative costs that may be incurred for the purposes of settling the matter.

Yours sincerely

[honeybee13]

Have you already sent this? We normally recommend to wait until you get their letter, so that you can reply with a reference number at the top of your letter and it will end up with the right person.

 

HB

[surfwalkersteve]

4 minutes ago, honeybee13 said:

Have you already sent this? We normally recommend to wait until you get their letter, so that you can reply with a reference number at the top of your letter and it will end up with the right person.

 

HB

I haven't, it's just a draft saved on my PC. Thanks for the heads up- I won't send it

I have the reference number which is on the receipt like MG11 I was given by the officer.

[honeybee13]

I suggest you wait for the letter, unless someone else thinks differently. MG11 sounds like the name of the form the RPI fills in rather than a reference.

 

HB

[dx100uk]

MG11 is simply the statement form

[surfwalkersteve]

4 minutes ago, honeybee13 said:

I suggest you wait for the letter, unless someone else thinks differently. MG11 sounds like the name of the form the RPI fills in rather than a reference.

 

HB

Apologies for the confusion

I have been given an MG11 (which looks like a receipt)
It has a reference number which is 15 characters long and begins "LSERWG000"

[dx100uk]

 

 

your begging letter needs work.

 

await the TfL letter

they have 6mts

[ericsbrother]

thye will do their research before they contact you so saying anything at the moment that can be challenged later wont be a good move.

[king12345]

They can't check where paper tickets have been used.

At best, having the physical ticket in their hand they could check in which barrier it was used.

So do not volunteer anymore than they ask.

[Stigy]

On 06/06/2019 at 08:25, surfwalkersteve said:

Hello all,

First of all i'd like to say thank you for all of those that contribute to this forum. It has proved very useful and interesting reading whilst fretting about my situation.

This morning I was caught using a Zone 1 & 2 Travel card. I live in Zone 5. I was coming from zone 5. I've been doing this for about 2 years. Today was the first time I was caught. 

It is inevitable that I will be paying a fine, I've come to terms with this. Does anybody have any idea how much it will be? A solicitor friend told me the max it could be is £1000 and thats only in very rare cases. 

Could anybody shed some light on this and confirm if this is correct?

I haven't had a letter through the post yet, when I do I will scan and upload it onto here.

Steve 

 

Hi Surfwalkersteve,

 

It's likely they will invite you in for a further interview to establish any other facts about your journey history. As it stands you just need to await their correspondence as has been advised already. I assume they have the ticket in their procession as evidence? I've skimmed through this thread but get the impression its a paper ticket rather than an oyster/smart card type? They will be able to find out which barriers the ticket has been through, as any ticket office can perform this check.

 

Regarding the fine; If it goes to court, the maximum fine is £1,000 (plus costs etc.), however, this is unlikely as all fines are means tested and unless you're either very wealthy and/or very persistent, you'll usually be fined a lot less.

[surfwalkersteve]

Hi,

Thanks for replying! 

It was a paper ticket, I was asked to sign it before they let me go. 

Is the interview compulsory, I am worried I would slip up during it and leave myself in more trouble then I already am.

Thanks,

S

[BazzaS]

They can’t make you attend an interview, but can make inferences from your failure to attend, and it might help them chose between an administrative settlement and a prosecution.

 

If you chose not to attend / attend and not answer, expect to be warned “it may harm your defence if you fail to mention something that you later rely on at court”.