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    • I'm not sure what the form is – would your new suppliers normally have contacted the old supplier to say that there was a change? If you could show that spark should have known that they were no longer dealing with the account holder at the time that they apply for the warrant, then it seems to me that they do bear some culpability. By the way one of the site team mentioned that at some point Marston would contact me. I'm afraid that's not the way it works. I've now referred the matter to Marston and they may well decide to contact you – the Original Poster for more information or simply to inform you that in the circumstances that there is nothing that they are able to do. I'm afraid it's out of my hands and I never asked for or ever receive any feedback about the references I make to them at this level
    • I've forwarded the details of this to Marston – but I'm not sure that there is much that can be done in the circumstances. If the energy company had been informed – or if they had reason to know that their customer was no longer at the address then of course obtaining the warrant was outrageous. As it is, it would seem that the previous tenant hadn't informed them and had simply done a runner – and unfortunately you have taken no action to return any mail to the sender so as far as I gather, there is no reason for the energy company to have known what has happened. Please note that I haven't really looked through this thread very carefully since I originally posted so are not au fait/can't remember all of the details – but that is my sketchy understanding. If this is the case then, although of course something needs to be sorted out – I have to say that it would have been helpful if you had either opened the mail or returned it. I know that you say that you have never had to do this in the past – but maybe it would be good practice in the future. It could be that in the past you have simply been lucky. You are talking about clearing the balance of some outstanding debt which belongs to somebody else? This seems to be extraordinary to me – but then I'm afraid I haven't been following the thread very closely  
    • So here is where things stand at the moment (sorry it's a very long post!):   I moved into this property in November.  I contacted both my electric and gas suppliers to change address and get my accounts moved over.   Electric - I closed my old account from my previous address, opened a new account for this address, set up a direct debit and requested they become the supplier.  The only thing that was outstanding on the account was a discussion about tariffs.  On 21st November they tried to call me but I didn't answer (judging from the time I was probably driving home from work).  I received a payment from them at the end of November from my previous account (which I clearly didn't check as I thought it was money going out for my direct debit).  I incorrectly assumed the call was about tariffs, which tbh, I'm not really fussed about. Their request to become the supplier was rejected but they didn't follow up on it or try to contact me again.  So I, like an idiot, thought it was all sorted out.  It's only now that I've been through my account that I realise they haven't been taking payments. I have spoken to them since Friday and the above is what they have told me has happened.   Gas - I closed my old account and have been trying to get a new account opened since November.  I have had several discussions with them re: the change request being rejected and they didn't know why it was being rejected but to leave it with them.  They told me at the beginning of this month it would be done by the 21st January.  During this phone call they said I could call the current supplier to make sure it goes smoothly but that it wasn't essential as they expected it to be completed by the 21st.  Last week they sent me a final demand for my previous address.  I contacted them to raise a complaint as I thought they were at fault, as I expected it to have been changed as per the above.   I spoke to them on Saturday and have sorted out my final bill and they have advised me to open accounts with the current supplier, Spark, clear them and then I can switch. Interestingly they also told me that Spark went bust in 2018 and it is a company called Ovo who are on the national database as the gas supplier.   Spark - This is the company who changed the meters on Friday.  I have two letters (one for gas, one for electric) that were left with the smart meter they had plugged in in the kitchen, both addressed to the previous tenant.  I obviously did open these on Friday.  Both letters state that they had changed the meters to prepayment meters.  There are several boxes that list current debt, amount of credit on meters etc none of which are filled in.  They also state that a booklet has been left explaining how the smart meter works.  There was no booklet. When I contacted them on Friday they told me that I was in fact on credit meters (I don't know if they changed this remotely when they realised I wasn't the person with the debt).  They also told me they had every right to enter the property and aren't able to check every time who the current occupant is and I should have told them I'd moved in.  I was told that someone would call me at 1pm on Saturday to discuss my complaint, thus far no one has called me.   I spoke with citizen's advice yesterday who really weren't much help tbh.  They said I should have contacted the current supplier when I moved in and provided a copy of my tenancy agreement.  I've moved A LOT over the years and have never had to do this.  I have checked several energy supplier websites and they all state to switch to them or move home simply to contact them and they will basically do the rest, not one of them states that you need to call the current supplier... obviously, on reflection I really wish I had!   My letting agent/landlord have requested that I take any post for the previous tenant to them and they will return it.  They also want confirmation of what type of meter (prepayment or credit) is now in the house.  The locks were changed when I moved in so only myself, the letting agent and the landlord have a key.  None of us let them in on Friday.     My next step is to open accounts with Spark/Ovo, clear the balances since November and then change suppliers.    All of the above have advised me to follow Spark's complaint procedure which I will do but as I said above they haven't contacted me so far re: the complaint I made on Friday.   Should I also contact Marston's to raise a complaint with them?   Whilst in all of this I do appreciate I could have done a fair bit to have made my life easier and probably prevented this happening (hindsight is wonderful!) my main complaint is that neither Spark nor Marston's felt they needed to perform a very simple check and see who actually lives in the property before breaking in.  I cannot for the life of me see how this is acceptable or legal.  Whilst they had the legal right and a warrant to enter the previous tenant's property as far as I am concerned they had no right to enter mine.    
    • I am in the process of looking on the land registry and it's showing on there alongside Lloyds bank,am going to look at deeds aswell  
    • Just a note that these appeal Trade Associations, are bodies these fleecers belong to so they are allowed to operate, appeals almost always fail, and by appealing important protections under POFA are lost as the appeal almost always identifies the driver.  Irrelevant in your case as you own the space, and the PPC have no rights in law over it.  POPLA appeal could also fail as POPLA wouldn't look at primacy of contract and the fact you own the space so can tell the PPC to Foxtrot Oscar. Whole Private Parking Industry is a money machine for unscrupulous ex cowboy clampers.
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Salford Resident

SIP Windscreen PCN - Albion Works, Pollard St, Manchester

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At the weekend I visited my girlfriend and parked, as I had before, in the car park overnight which is part of her Manchester apartment complex.

It's open air, and there is a machine for taking money for parking. It's operated by SIP.

 

The machines clearly set out the time and cost of parking there.

There is virtually nothing which states that it is for resident permit holders only

( and the simple existence of a parking machine would indicate visitors are allowed ).

 

The only reference to a permit being needed is one line on the sign which, ambiguously, suggests that is one just one of 3 criteria for being allowed to park in the space.

I paid the appropriate fee for the hours I stayed there ( £4.50 ).

 

When I returned to my car in the morning there was a ticket on the windscreen.

I appealed the following day, but it was rejected.

 

I was offered the opportunity to appeal to IAS.

Having researched this appeals company I'm not convinced

they are truly independent.

 

Is there any advice for me to follow, as i feel a strong sense of injustice.

 

Thanks

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Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

Could you provide the information requested on the forum sticky please? It will help us to advise you.

 

Best, HB

 


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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It was a Parking Charge Notice stuck to my windscreen

 

1 The date of infringement? 02/06/19

 

2 Have you yet appealed to the parking company yet? [Y/N?] Y

 

if you have then please post up whatever you sent and how you sent it and the date you sent it,

suitably redacted. [as a PDF- follow the upload guide

 

I appealed on the 3rd Jun, via the SIP website. I simply stated the same reasons as in my original post on this forum. I don't have access to this.

 

has there been a response?

please post it up as well, suitably redacted. [as a PDF- follow the upload guide] PDF attached.

 

If you haven't appealed yet - ,.........

 

have you received a Notice To Keeper? (NTK) [must be received by you between 29-56 days]

what date is on it

Did the NTK provide photographic evidence? No

 

3 Did the NTK mention Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) [Y/N?]

 

4 If you appealed after receiving the NTK,

did the parking company give you any information regarding the further appeals process?

[it is well known that parking companies will reject any appeal whatever the circumstances]

 

5 Who is the parking company? SIP

 

6. where exactly [Carpark name and town] did you park? Albion Works, Pollard St, Manchester

 

 

 

 

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You've left the name & PCN number in that appeal reply.

 

Things you need to do now:

  • Get a wide view photo from the public road of the entrance to the car park (show us what signs can be seen or not as the case may be)
  • Close up photos of any different types of signs and tell us where they are. Entrance, near where you parked, blurb on the ticket machines etc.
  • Get your girlfriend to dig her lease out and lets see what it says.

 

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Whatever you do in the future  DO NOT CONTACT THE ISSUING COMPANY OR APPEAL IN ANY WAY.

 

The reasoning for this has now probably hit you but advice is aimed at all readers of this thread.

 

If their PCN reflects the sigange then you havent breached  any contract as they dont apply to you and the signage is probably prohibitive in nature so their claim is an unlawful penalty charge

 

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ive removed your uploads as pers info was showing

please place them all in ONE PDF file after redacting properly.

read Upload

 

dx


..

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I opened this topic at the start of June, but have been away since then.

Have now taken some pictures, and have had letters through from SIP, so thought would start as new topic.

 

I parked in the pay and display car park at Albion Works, where my GF lives, and bought a ticket in good faith.

I stayed overnight at my GF's and when I returned to my car the following morning I had a ticket. 

 

At first I couldn't work out why, I was new to the car park so wasn't aware of any restrictions.

I appealed to SIP.

Of course this was rejected ( I was unaware of the advice not to at the time ).

 

When I went to photograph the ticket machine sign, as suggested on this forum, I noticed that only certain bays were available, the others being apparently reserved. It was very badly presented and easy to miss. Very few of the bays had any reference to the fact they were not available for general use.

 

A letter arrived demanding payment, along with a second letter also demanding payment for another parking offence, a few days earlier.

 

I was totally unaware of this one, as had no ticket on my windscreen ( not sure how i prove this, except that, clearly, I wouldn't have parked a few days later if I'd been alerted to the issues of parking there by a ticket ).

 

I've not contacted SIP since the original appeal.

I was intending to send a letter formally rejecting the other parking fine, which I was unaware of.

 

I have attached a PDF with photos.

Does anyone have any advice?

I was due to respond to the letters by tomorrow ( Friday 2nd ) or Monday or they say they will add extra charges.

It all feels very unjust, and a way of tricking money from unsuspecting car owners.

The signage is ambiguous at best.

 

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Hi. I've merged your old and new threads into the parking forum. It's easier for the advisers to have the whole story - they should be along later.

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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where does any of their paperwork use the word FINE please??

 

 


..

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3 minutes ago, dx100uk said:

where does any of their paperwork use the word FINE please??

 

 

They seem to use the word 'charge' - not 'fine'? This is all the paperwork I have.

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Don't talk to dx about fines, you'll ruin his day. :) We call them speculative invoices.

 

Have you managed to obtain the information Mrs O'Frog mentioned in post #4 please? It's what the guys need in order to advise.

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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we need a close up of the ticket machine so we can read any blurb on it should this exist.

 

The contract offered is what is on the ticket machine and the sign above doesnt say a damned thing about paying them £100 for any reason. the signs scattered about ARENT contracts and you are not obliged to consider them.

 

There is case law on this so parking co stuffed.

Also P&D for limited bays and that means they have no say over who parks in the other ones.

 

The reason you have been told off for using the word fine is because if you use this word when it doesnt apply it will show your level of ignorance on parking matters when you have to write to these bandits or their less than honest mouthpieces and they will think that you will be an easy kill.

 

Start to understand what it is all about and it becomes less fearful and easier to knock them away without having to end up in court.

They are greedy and lazy so anything that makes their job collecting money for nothing serves us all well, even the landowners as they see nothing of this cash but get all of the grief from residents and visitors alike

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The pictures are included in the PDF attached today. My GF hasn't dug out her lease, but I know she rents a space out to someone in the covered car park ( there is a separate, gated underground car park to this one, which appears more 'public'

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also you mention extra charges

 

so how lawful are these do you think these would have been if you hadnt appealed and actually created a condition where they can become lawful?

 

This is why we tell people not to appeal without knowing all of the facts.

 

so you now need to look up the planning consent for the car park to be open to the public and for the signage and machinery.  Look on the council planning portal and tell us what you have found if anything and we will advise as to what to do next. asking the right questyion to the right person will get yopu a lot of help but just phone the council up and ask vague questions about planning will get you an incorrect answer that the opposition will  turn about to hurt you.

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Will you be able to get the lease information in time to reply fully tomorrow? It's a bit of a race for the advisers to be honest, you haven't been here since early June.

 

ETA sorry, crossed posts with EB.

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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I'm at my girlfriend's this evening, so I can ask her to look out her lease. Sorry, missed that request.

I understand it's a rush, not got any expectations or demands as I accept that it is my responsibility to have answered earlier. Grateful for any input.

It's the injustice! I was also totally unaware of not appealing the charge in the first instance. I guess they play on that. They even suggest going to an 'independent' appeals service ( which isn't ).

 

I have no idea why they have sent the second letter ( for May ) detailing a charge, had no indication of it as no ticket on the windscreen. Not done anything about that, although was preparing a letter.

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they like to use reminders to apply the pressure to make you think that if you dont pay the next month the bill will be £200 and so on.

 

I am a pensioner but manage to use my researching skills that are simplified by the internet before I put pen to paper so if you thought there was an injustice or incredulity to this demand for your hard earned money you should have done the same . 

Still hindsight is 20/20 perfect vision and the damage done is not that great in the grand scheme of things as IPC members are generally not honest to start off with.

 

The piccie of the meter is what I need most, if there is no mention of paying £100 for not following the blurb as you put the money in then there isnt a clause in the contract that allows it as already said.

 

You havent accepted ANY contract until you feed the meter but when you do only the blurb on the meter or any sign associated with it counts and all of the other signs in the car park become irrelevant. The lack of a signs at the gate also destroys the parking co's chaces of a claim based on the little signs as generally they will fail the test for size, font, clarity for content etc as no-one is expected to wander round a car park in the pouring rain at night  looking for clues to a treasure hunt.

 

The blanked out bays available to the public also indicate that the parking co DONT manage the place as they are not in any position toperform to their contract without going back to their masters so at best they are agents of whoever employed them and thus cnat offer anything t the public in their own name.

 

I bet that is in their contract with the landlord ( or in reality a managing agent who has trousered the money to let them in without the actual authority to do so) and they will fight tooth and nail to avoid that becoming public and so will rather drop a claim against you they would lose anyway rather than lose ALL of their income from that site and possibly (i wish  but it wont happen even though the law is there to allow it) end up in fourt for theft and fraud

 

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"The piccie of the meter is what I need most, if there is no mention of paying 3100 for not following the blurb as you put the money in then there isnt a clause in the contract that allows it as already said. "

 

There is a picture of the meter in the PDF I attached on my first post today, before the previous thread was ( kindly ) merged with this one.

 

 

 

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no I want a picture of the face of the meter so you can see every pixel of the screen that you read when you feed it. If there is nothing then we want a picture of just that, the blank face of the unarmed bandit. If the meter itself doesnt offer you terms then the sign above is the relevant contract.

reread my last thread to see why it is important

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please stop putting images directly into posts

read our rules

put them in ONE multipage PDF file please

read upload

 

last post removed

2 previous posts images removed.

 

dx

 


..

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Sorry, still learning...

 

Is it best to recreate a PDF with ALL the images and post again?

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Hopefully done it correctly this time.

Got confused cos of the image options offered on the post form.

 

 

 

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you have left all of your personal datails on the NTK, take the pdf down and blank them out. If you cnat do that ask DX100 to remove the file.

 

As for the parking meter piccies, absolutely perfect. As you see, no mention of paying them £100 for anything so they cant charge you for a breach of a term that doesnt exist.

 

Read S62 of the Consumer Rights Act and you will see that a contract has to be offered on one go, no hidden bits on a wbsite etc or you can reject the contract in its entirety. Now this is in addition to general contract law that sometime goes against us even wheh it is commercial law applied to consumer contracts ( see the defining case law used for the BEAVIS decision)

 

So meter doesnt ay anyting and S62 allows you to reject the extra offers made after you have bought the ticket (no contract agreed until you pay) so signs cant be "before" or they would be on the meter!

I hope this is making sense to you, SIP dont give a stuff about the law, they just wnat your money

 

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