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    • LL would have Absolutely no chance of getting the smart meter changed back.....
    • slow down ...read what i'm asking , stating and trying to clarify.. it all might seem useless or totally irrelevant but it's important information moving forward with the whole situation and useful in the SPC claim moving forward     there was not 2 loans - the litigated OD is not a loan but it appears from your comment here..     sorry but then you did get scammed on many fronts... they allowed you to settle the loan exploiting your confusion over thinking it was the litigated account. they didn't tell you either and they would also have been aware of your statement filed response form:   The respondent had a junior account with the Bank of Scotland since a young age.  The Bank of Scotland offered the Respondent a loan of around £2500. This Respondent serviced the loan until losing her source of income and ran into some financial difficulty resulting in defaulting in servicing the loan.   they settled for a discounted sum... why? we usually find this is because they hold no enforceable paperwork at all. or was full of charges , charges could have been the discount or it could have been due to 'a business decision' ...   but sure as eggs is eggs there is no way 1st credit would not have raised a court claim for both the OD and the loan unless there was a very good reason. they didn't that smells...badly.   OD 's are notoriously difficult to litigate upon if defended properly...but with a loan in the same claim, with enforceable paperwork, they would have almost been guaranteed to win.   it's also a shame you didn't come where before you did anything but we are where we are.   now the above might seem harsh..even petty but our posts are not only for you and your issue they are also for future readers that find us via search engines or read like threads here alerting debtors to frequent pitfalls and innocent wet myself actions many do that all these dca's will and have exploited time and time again over the last +40yrs .   i'll try and get around to properly redacting all your pdf's tonight and get them back up. but before i finish and get on with the above........the status of the claim as it stands now.   From what i can gather the claim now hinges upon proving her ex at the time settled by a discounted payment to HBOS well before the sale to Intrum and the SPC Claim.   In all honestly and with regard to your comments in your previous posts upon his character, i seriously doubt this ever happened. the disclosures from Intrum contain all the OD statements , should that have happened, it would be detailed in those.   there is little point in the claimant hiding that info as they would be in far more legal trouble should they have doctored them than insuring a mere +£1k claim win. Even 1st credit wouldn't pull such stunts.   Sorry but there is little point in requesting HBOS to attend any future hearing, nor hoping the SAR shows anything different to the statements the claimant has disclosed . That will cost you more money , and more money in terms of the claimant attending another hearing.   there is one exploitation i see. that being the mention of a default notice. the claim states:  The respondent fell into arrears under the Finance Agreement. A Default Notice was Issued by the Original Creditor .   now default notices are not issued for OD A/C's (which ties in to the possible loan confusion and scam settlement i mentioned) . This tallies with a common mistake that many DCA's, including why i keep mentioning 1st credit, which is the previous name for Intrum, made on numerous claims and was one of the reasons for the name change. To Hide that They lost many Statutory Demand and court claims over the non existence of a DN or proof of it's issuance by the OC (a DCA can't issue a DN) .. No copy of a default notice is fatal to to successful  litigation.   even though in this OD case one was not ever needed. (Poor particulars of claim showing copy and paste, and never expecting a claim to be defended but responded to by a wet themselves response , which you did by settling a loan which you believed was the claimed debt when it never was)    other than that you indicate you made an OOC F&F offer in 09-20  have you advanced this option since ?   dx
    • A government-backed firm is looking for new ways to get people to put money aside for a "rainy day". View the full article
    • Hi 1983 and welcome to CAG   Bear with us as it gets quieter here over the weekend.   CCA requests will not be appropriate for the bank account overdrafts.   Before further suggestions are made about CCA requests from the creditors, can you give us approx opening dates for each of the 5 CC a/c's and the bank loan a/c.
    • Hi,    I'm new to this forum and hoping for some advice!   I have various overdraft, credit card and loan debts, which are all a bit of a mess:   Barclaycard (2 cards) = £14,000 (1 card suspended, but not in arrears) Lloyds CC= £3,800 Tesco CC = £3700 Natwest CC = £650 Natwest Loan £17,000 Natwest OD = £1,400 Halifax OD = £1,500   Currently, I have not missed any payments, but I'm reaching a point where these debts are becoming unmanageable. I have just about kept up with repayments but now all 0% have ended and minimum payments are increasing making it impossible.    I am considering a debt management plan... Reading through other people's experiences, dmp's seem to have mixed opinions and I'm also unsure if I should use a company like Step Change or Payplan whether I'd do better approaching the various creditors myself.   My wife also has debts, but much less (approx £10k and up to date, but struggling). Is it prudent for us to both start a dmp, or will that effect our long term plans if/when we want to remortgage/move down the line? (i know it'll be 6 years after default before these will disappear from our files).   As it stands, my min payments next month are approaching £1k, which is absurd. What kind of level of min payment would I expect to pay in a dmp?   Also, there seems to be a lot of advice on obtaining CCA's. At what point should I be asking for these, or is this something best left until the debts are inevitably sold on?   Sorry for the multiple questions!   Thanks in advance,   A    
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    • Hi @BankFodder
      Sorry for only updating you now, but after your guidance with submitting the claim it was pretty straight forward and I didn't want to unnecessarily waste your time. Especially with this guide you wrote here, so many thanks for that
      So I issued the claim on day 15 and they requested more time to respond.
      They took until the last day to respond and denied the claim, unsurprisingly saying my contract was with Packlink and not with them.
      I opted for mediation, and it played out very similarly to other people's experiences.
      In the first call I outlined my case, and I referred to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 as the reason to why I do in fact have a contract with them. 
      In the second call the mediator came back with an offer of the full amount of the phone and postage £146.93, but not the court costs. I said I was not willing to accept this and the mediator came across as a bit irritated that I would not accept this and said I should be flexible. I insisted that the law was on my side and I was willing to take them to court. The mediator went back to Hermes with what I said.
      In the third call the mediator said that they would offer the full amount. However, he said that Hermes still thought that I should have taken the case against Packlink instead, and that they would try to recover the court costs themselves from Packlink.
      To be fair to them, if Packlink wasn't based in Spain I would've made the claim against them instead. But since they are overseas and the law lets me take action against Hermes directly, it's the best way of trying to recover the money.
      So this is a great win. Thank you so much for your help and all of the resources available on this site. It has helped me so much especially as someone who does not know anything about making money claims.
      Many thanks, stay safe and have a good Christmas!
        • Thanks
    • Hermes and mediation hints. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428981-hermes-and-mediation-hints/&do=findComment&comment=5080003
      • 1 reply
    • Natwest Bank Transfer Fraud Call HMRC Please help. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428951-natwest-bank-transfer-fraud-call-hmrc-please-help/&do=findComment&comment=5079786
      • 31 replies
    • Hermes lost parcel.. Read more at https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/422615-hermes-lost-parcel/
      • 49 replies

Right to refund with electronics

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I sold a working Talktalk TV box on ebay. The buyer admits that it is fully working. They still want to return it as they don't have a Talktalk broadband account.


In the listing for the item it was clearly displayed in large coloured text that the buyer needs a Talktalk broadband account to use this item.


The buyer is asking for a full refund, including the postage I paid to send the item. Do they have a right to get a refund, on second hand electronic goods, if there is no fault? And if so, do they need to return the item first or can they keep it and have their money back (effectively stealing)?

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If you are an eBay trader then the seller has a 14 day cooling off period under the Consumer Contracts Regulations. The 14 day period begins from the date that the item is delivered. You don't have to refund the the money until you have received the item and you are satisfied that it is in exactly the same condition – including packaging – in which you sent it. You are obliged also to refund any delivery charge unless the purchaser has specified a particularly expensive form of delivery in which case you are only required to refund the standard delivery that you would normally use.

You have to make the refund as soon as is possible – seven days is probably about right.

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Thanks BankFodder,


To be clear. Does "delivered" mean when I delivered the item to the post office, or when the post office delivered the item to the buyer?


By coincidence it has already been 14 days since I delivered the item to the post office although I have no way of knowing when the buyer received the item. But they left positive feedback 11 days ago that it is working. So, if I receive the item back within another 3 days I am required to refund, but later than that I am not?


And to be clear, is this when I receive the item, not when the buyer posts it?

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Delivery means the date that the seller has received the item

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If you are a private seller then you have to have a return or no return policy set, if it is set as no return and it is buyers remorse etc then they can't request a return only if faulty. If you are a registered trader then you have to do as BankFodder says.


If they open a return stating it is faulty etc when they have admitted it isn't via I am assuming eBay messaging then report them to eBay for making a fraudulent claim.

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Thanks PIXeL_92,


Yes, I am just a private seller selling a few of their own personal items. The items weren't purchased for sale. I just don't use them.


I do have a returns policy explicitly stating that I do not accept returns. This is because buyers don't read the description even when I put *READ DESCRIPTION* in big letters in the item title.


The buyer hasn't claimed the item is faulty, just that it isn't "working as intended". This is because it's a Talktalk TV box and only works with a Talktalk broadband account. Otherwise the buyer even states that the item "seems to work" meaning that it takes power and boots up until it can't find a broadband signal.


Ebay instructed me to call them first thing after 3 days. I called at 8am in the morning when their office opened. But the buyer had already escalated a case and ebay issued them with a return label 15 minutes before I phoned. I couldn't have phoned any earlier and there was no option to do it online at any stage.




I was going to sell other stuff but now will probably just bin it or give it to a charity shop to avoid the expense and hassle.

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Just call eBay up and tell them that the item was sold and received as described ie needing an account to make use of it and it can be proved through the messages between yourselves and the positive feedback. The only way he would have been able to raise a case is raising a not as described case and he has now committed fraud by submitting that case.

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Thread moved to the apprpriate forum.





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