Hoist Claim Form - TSB Lloyd trustcard Credit Card debt *** Claim Discontinued ***

[barafear799]

Hi,

 

Received Claim form. Just need some advice - although, this isn't the first - so I (should) know most of the steps. (thanks to CAG)

 

 

 

dte of claim - 16th may

 

Name of the Claimant ? Hoist Finance UK Holdings 2 Limited

 

Particulars of Claim

What is the claim for – the reason they have issued the claim? 

 

1.Claim is for the sum of £4xxx.xx in respect of monies owing under an agreement with the account no. ***** pursuant to the CCA 1974. 

 

2. The debt was legally assigned by Hoist Portfolio Holding Ltd (Ex Lloyds Bank PLC) to the Claimant and notice has been served.

 

3.The Defendant has failed to make contractual payments under the term of the agreement.

 

A default notice has been served upon the defendant persuant to s.87 (1) CCA. 

 

The Claimant claims:

1: The sum of £4xxx.xx

2. Costs

 

Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC ( Pre Action Protocol) ?

I did receive a "letter" (assume it was letter before claim) around one month before. I ignored it, although I was going to request the relevant CCA info at that point - but to be honest, I ignored it. 

 

Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No. 

Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? N/A

 

What is the total value of the claim? Just under £5k

 

Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account?  Nothing in the POC to indicate exactly, but I believe it was a Credit Card. 

 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? Yes.

 

Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/ Equifax /Etc...) ? No

 

 

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Assigned

 

 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? Possibly

 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? Probably, a long time ago?

 

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Default sums” – at least once a year ? Possibly. 

 

Why did you cease payments? Financial Difficulties.

 

What was the date of your last payment? Fairly recently.....see below. 

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? Yes. (long time ago)

 

 

Ok, I've done the CCA request to the claimant - and am about to acknowledge online with a view to defending. 

 

Some background info. 

 

Until fairly recently (6-9 months ago) I had a direct debit set up paying off a small amount per month to a company called Robinson Way (I believe they were acting on behalf of Lloyds). 

I ended this - I cancelled DD - because I had issues with another debt which potentially might have led to me losing my job/becoming bankrupt or something similar. I did explain on the phone to Robinson Way and they said they could put my account on hold for a short while. 

I didn't restart the DD. 

 

And in the last six months or so, the account appears to have been sold on (is this what assigned means?) and Hoist have been very quick (agressive) in issuing this claim form. 

 

I haven't yet done a CPR request to the solicitor (Howard Cohen) - as the POC are not very extensive. I'm guessing I should, asking at least for the notice of assignment. 

I'm not sure what "contractual" payments I've missed to Hoist as clearly I didn't have an agreement with them. Would this effectively revert back to my original agreement with Lloyds? 

So, is it worthwhile sending CPR to HC to ask for notice of assignment and default notice? 

 

Anything else I'm missing? 

 

Anyone else had dealings with Hoist? I've done a search on CAG and couldn't find anything similar. They seem to be "new boys" on the block.

 

Many thanks.

 

 

 

[dx100uk]

 

how many digits are there is the account number?

 

date of claim?

 

[barafear799]

11 digits. The one I included in my original post was just random numbers.

16th May.

 

[dx100uk]

that's not a credit card then.

it should be 16 digits

as usual hoist/robbersway or which ever trading name they want to use from their 'group'

haven't a clue what they are issuing a claimform but solely hoping for a wet pants panic payment/ignorance.

your problems started when you ignored a letter of claim.

 

go find the old letters they've probably issued the claim using their ref number not the OC's card number.

yes get a CPR running to cohen.

 

I would suggest this was sold on long ago hence you've been paying robbersway and their client was hoist not Lloyds from the get go.

check the letters carefully.

you should NEVER ring a DCA!! or their dogs on any debt.

 

.
 register as an individual
 note the long gateway number given
 then log in
.
 select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.
.
 then using the details required from the claimform
.
 defend all
 leave jurisdiction unticked.
 click thru to the end
 confirm and exit MCOL.
.
 get a CCA Request running to the claimant
https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/332502-cca-request-consumer-credit-act-1974-updated-january-2015/
 leave the £1PO blank and uncrossed
.
 get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors [if one is not listed send to the claimant]
https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/332546-legal-cpr-3114-request-request-for-information-when-a-claim-has-been-issued/
.
type your name ONLY

no need to sign anything
.
you DO NOT await the return of paperwork.
you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform [1 in the count]

 

 

 

 

[barafear799]

Thanks for the response DX.

If they have used an incorrect account number, would that only be seen as a small slip up?

 

In terms of previous dealings with Robinson Way, I have been receiving annual statements from Lloyds detailing my payments and outstanding balance.

So I do believe that RW were dealing on behalf of Lloyds, and with "indecent" haste, it now seems to have been sold and I have been issued with a claim form.

So much for treating debtors with care and respect! 

 

I'll get my CPR done and sent off to Cohen and we'll see what comes of it.

I'm guessing Lloyds' quick sale might work in my favour - suggesting that the original agreement (dating from around 2003 I guess) is missing!! 

 

I'll look forward to getting a reconstituted version.

 

 

[dx100uk]

if LLoyds were aware of your correct address then so were robbersway.

you should have received a notice of assignment if the debt when the debt was sold on

[barafear799]

Sorry, been off sick for a while.

I've done the AOS. But I'm aware I need to start thinking about my defence now and I have about a week to post it. 

I got a response from Robinson Way (despite sending CCA to Hoist) - they returned my postal order - no longer reqd since GDPR rules changed.

(did I not use the latest up to date template from here?)

 

Also sent off CPR to the solicitors.

 

Will try to dig out the letters from Robbers or Hoist or Lloyds. 

 

Interestingly, I was paying off two Lloyds accounts with RW - the other is now getting chased by Moorcroft. Are they anything to do with this group?

 

 

[dx100uk]

no Moorcroft don't buy debt are not linked.

 

are you sure this is a credit card debt

and not an OD debt or a loan debt?

 

 

 

 

[barafear799]

Def cc debt. Found annual statement from Lloyds. Quite a 16 digit number. The 11 digit number appears to be robbers ref no.

[dx100uk]

don't be fooled!!

1.Claim is for the sum of £4xxx.xx in respect of monies owing under an agreement with the account no. ***** pursuant to the CCA 1974. 

 

IS the agreement number their rway ref number? - I bet not.

check another rway letter as you cant enter into a credit agreement with a DCA they are not creditors.

so either their poc is WRONG or you are.

 

 

[barafear799]

Ok, update.

I've had responses back from both the Claimant (CAA) and Solicitor (CPR). 

My £1 postal order was returned as "not required due to recent GDPR changes"

 

 

Both were standard holding letters stating they'd look for the documents I requested and would place my account on hold.

However, I still need to enter a defence within about 7 days. 

 

I've found annual statements from Lloyds Bank (as in since I've been making monthly payments to RobWay)  - they clearly state account number as a 16 digit number and then a ref number as the 11 digit number which is also mentioned in the POC. 

As stated, I had two accounts with Rob Way (Lloyds) - both statements show different 16 digit numbers as the account number and different 11 digit numbers as a ref no.

I haven't found any recent (within the last six months) assignment from Lloyds to any company within the Hoist group.

The POC mentions the assignment of the debt :

 

Hoist Portfolio Holding Ltd (Ex Lloyds Bank PLC) to the Claimant

 

With the claimant being Hoist Finance UK Holdings 2 Limited

 

 

 

 

 

 

[AndyOrch]

" My £1 postal order was returned as "not required due to recent GDPR changes"

 

A CCA request is made under section 77/78/79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974...and has no connections to GDPR

 

[barafear799]

I agree. But that's what they said!! I'll upload some letters. Meanwhile, would appreciate some pointers for my defence. Should I mention the anomaly of account/reference numbers.

 

Thank you

[AndyOrch]

Should be fun then and easy to defend if they think the two are connected 

 

No particular details for an initial defence...that comes later in your statement...simple put them to strict proof to disclose defence for now.

[barafear799]

ok, as promised some uploads. 

 

Some comments about each one:

 

LTSB Statement: 

 

The "Ref" under the date (starting with 4) is the same 11 digit number quoted on the claim form. 

However, the number after "Statement for Account No" (also starting with 4) is a 16 digit number - presumably credit card number.

 

Robway CAA Reply: 

 

Their reference number is a 10 digit number beginning with 4 and does not correspond with any other numbers I have seen.

But the Account number they quote is the same 11 digit number as above and also on claim form. (referred to on here as Account Number, but on LTSB statement as "Ref" and on claim form as "agreement with the account no." 

 

Robway PreLegal:

 

 

Also quotes the numbers in the same order. But no reference to any 16 digit CC number.

 

 

Any further advice much appreciated. Need to start my defence. 

Also got a reply to my CPR request from Cohen. Fairly standard - we're gathering your documents and will get back to you forthwith. 

 

 

 

docs1.pdf

[dx100uk]

due Monday by 4pm.

 

 

[AndyOrch]

That statement is not from Lloyds its been created by RW

[barafear799]

On behalf of Lloyds? I was somewhat shocked/surprised to be getting any contact with Lloyds, given they seemed to be using Robway

[dx100uk]

nothing to do with lloyds

its a dump from the fleecers CMS system and is NOT from LLoyds 

which is the evidence they must produce.

 

dx

 

[barafear799]

Can someone please advise on whether the account number they've quoted on claim form not being the original credit card number is of significance and should I mention it prominently in my defence?

 

Should I mention that I've been paying Robway for a number of years and have not previously asked for proof (i.e. CAA or CPR)? Thank you.

[dx100uk]

the latter no

 

as for the account number, it might be worthy of a mention, but 

 

earlier you said:

 

As stated, I had two accounts with Rob Way (Lloyds) - both statements show different 16 digit numbers as the account number and different 11 digit numbers as a ref no.

 

so you are/were paying Lloyds via rway on two separate Credit card debts?, and it is one of these now being litigated??

[barafear799]

Yes. One is this claim. The much larger balance. The other balance is under 500 and that is the one that Moorcroft are now chasing me for. 

[barafear799]

Proposed defence. Constructive feedback appreciated please.

 

Proposed Defence

Particulars of Claim

1. Claim is for the sum of £4xxx.xx in respect of monies owing under an agreement with the account no. ***** pursuant to the CCA 1974.

2. The debt was legally assigned by Hoist Portfolio Holding Ltd (Ex Lloyds Bank PLC) to the Claimant and notice has been served.

3. The Defendant has failed to make contractual payments under the term of the agreement.

4.  A default notice has been served upon the defendant pursuant to s.87 (1) CCA.

The Claimant claims:

1: The sum of £4xxx.xx

2. Costs

 

Defence:

 1. The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

 2. Paragraph 1 is noted and accepted. I have in the past had financial dealings with Lloyds Bank. I do not recall the precise details and have sought verification from the claimant by way of CPR 31.14 and CCA requests. I do not recognise the account number quoted as being an account number ever entered into with Lloyds.

 

3. Paragraph 2 is noted.  This assignment of debt simply appears to be an internal transfer between different parts of the Claimant’s overarching organisation. If the original credit agreement was entered into with Lloyds, I would require an assignment notice from Lloyds.

 

4. It is therefore denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant; the Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of credit agreement/assignment/balance/breach requested by CPR 31.14, and remains in default of my section 78 request, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

 

 (a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement; and

 (b) show and evidence the nature of breach and service of a default notice pursuant to section 87(1) CCA1974

 (c) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and

 (d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.

 

 5. On receipt of this claim I requested, by way of a CPR 31.14 request and a section 78 request, copies of the documents referred to or implied within the Claimant’s particulars to establish what the claim is for.

 

I have received responses from both the claimant and their solicitor stating that they acknowledge my request and a further response with the details will be forthcoming, but as at the date of entering this defence has not yet been received.  

 

 6. As per Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

 7. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82 A of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

 8. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

[AndyOrch]

Just a few edits/additions in bold...I would remove the part in red a Notice of Assignment can come from either the assignor or or assignee.

 

Andy

[barafear799]

In terms of assignment, I was trying to emphasise that surely it's the assignment from the original creditor that's important. Their poc merely mentions an assignment from Hoist UK to Hoist 2 holdings (or something similar). Don't I need to highlight that they can only chase the debt if there is a clear trail of assignment from the original creditor?

 

Thank you for your other adjustments and taking time to read it over for me. Much appreciated