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gavva2010

Fraudulent bitcoin Chargeback against my TSB account

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I recently traded on localbitcoins.com, using my TSB current account, selling just over 1 BTC for £6,600. I am a fully verified Pro-trader, & only buy/sell from completely verified people, & I obtain a photo of the person I'm dealing with holding photo ID beside themselves prior to commencing the trade. The buyer used monzo Bank, to send the funds, & the trade was completed. I then moved the money across to my Nationwide account, to pool funds for a private purchase. 

 

Afew days later I attempted to transfer around £500 from my TSB account online, but the transfer was stopped I & received a message to call them. I spoke to their Fraud dept., who informed me the transfer into my account for £6,600 had been disputed by Monzo, as their customer had claimed this was not their doing. My photo ID which matches the name on the received payment Proves this is inaccurate. I detailed all of this to their fraud dept., took all documents into branch, where they were scanned & forwarded on. 

 

I am now being told "although we're happy that you're an innocent party, because you benefited from this fraud, we need you to pay the money back into the account". No way, I told them. I have proved this is rightfully my money, & I have provided the Bitcoin was received by this person via localbitcoins' escrow system, again I have documented all this proof to TSB.

 

I called the Fraud Dept. Today, to resolve this. I've been told "we need you to visit your branch AGAIN, we can temporarily remove the stop on your account, to allow you to withdraw your balance, then we will add the stop onto your account again, & it will need to be closed".  I'm being completely fobbed-off by the fraud dept., I've told the branch they need to go back to Monzo Bank, with the comprehensive proof that I've provided, & tell them to advise their customer "nice try". Their response was "TSB will have to take the hit for this". Really? 

 

What a complete shower this bank is, I now need to make a high level-complaint, & to recover the £500- odd positive balance, that I don't feel they're going to freely give me. I cannot believe that I have shown complete proof of the purchase, & this is the upshot. I'm done with TSB, & I feel they need their customers more than their customers need them at the moment.  

 

 I'm going into branch, for what will be the last time, on Friday, & I'll update on what happens. They keep mentioning "we need to make some calculations" regarding how much of the balance they will provide, I have shown proof of entitlement to them for the few transactions into the account since the date of the disputed payment. 

 

If anybody can chime-in with any advice about my rights / outside agencies I can bring onboard with this, I'd be very grateful.

 

 

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Okay so this is an interesting case. A lot of the current banks dont understand the indepths concepts of Cryptocurrency and most transactions are viewed as being High Risk. Its sort of like the Ebay Chargeback [problem] of yesteryear... But more up to date. 

 

So have TSB verified 100% that you are an innocent party in all of this? My concern here is that you may end up having a black marker put against your name. 

This is known as a CIFAS Marker and you must get confirmation from TSB that you will not have one put against you otherwise you will have a very bad time.

 

I would suggest an email to the CEO's team - They cant override the Fraud / Chargeback team but if the money is yours and it passes all of their KYC Checks then there should be no issue. Let them close your account and find another bank who do want you. Also after the complaint has been had - You should refer this to the Financial Ombudsman Service as the way the bank have treated you is unfair IMHO. 

 

They have T&Cs that allow them to close your account at any time but it has to be fair - IE Breaching KYC Checks / Fraud / Court Action... Etc

Also I wonder if reaching out to the papers might be an option. 

 

@BankFodder - Any idea? 

 

Legal action might also be in the question if you are shortchanged by TSB and considering their precarious situation last year with the IT Fiasco - They are on shaky ground.  

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Thanks for that fkofilee, there has just been another development,  in the last hour, I received an automated txt from TSB stating: "you are nearing your limit. Pls ensure you have sufficient funds...".

 

I'll upload a screenshot of what I found when logging into my account, bear in mind I've had no calls from TSB today:

1664991365_TSBonlinescreenshot.jpg.e34b75c3f9c544d5af4c85e9191ad61f.jpg

 

So whilst the stop has been on my account, the balance was £579.73. They've made these withdrawals from the account, which has put my account £65.43 overdrawn, with a £1300.00 arranged overdraft. I have an appointment tommorow in Branch, which I was told would have the block lifted, allow me to withdraw the balance, & have the block re-applied ( which makes no sense at all, & I had little faith this would be the actual outcome of the visit). I will try & keep my cool & visit the branch anyway, even though this is going to be a massive waste of my time. The phonecalls to their Fraud dept. are largely just fobbing me off, with no progress made. & The person I'm speaking to is relaying to the actual investigator, who I cannot make direct contact with. 

 

The 3 amounts of 510, 250, & 500, all correspond with the 3 inward transactions since the £6750, which I took comprehensive "proof of entitlement" papers into the Branch on Monday, the £685.16 I do not recognize. I don't know what TSB think they're doing here, they've intentionally put my account into an unauthorized overdraft, with no contact made with me beforehand. 

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I've made a complaint via TSB's online complaint form, if you happen to have the direct contact details for the CEO's team, I'd be very grateful. 

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I don't know about TSB. When I had a problem with Barclays last year, I emailed the CEO directly and it was passed to the executive complaints team.

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Hi Honeybee, I'm googling the TSB ceo's email address now. I'm also contacting the FOS & FSA right now, I've read a few threads on here about others' experience with TSB, how they're even in business is shocking. I cannot wait for their next IT upgrade 😁

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I think the current CEO is Donna Cooper, if that helps.

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Ah she's the New Zealand director, I've got Debbie Crosbie as the Current UK CEO, her twitter is  https://twitter.com/debbiecrosbie1?lang=en

 

But I'm struggling to get an email address for her through google, or even their "high level complaints" team contact details. 

 

As for the Ombudsman, it seems from their site that you have to give the bank 8 weeks & have received a "final response" prior to their involvement. So my only hope is to tweet her, which I've done, & surprise surprise - it hasn't shown on her page. 

Edited by gavva2010
additional info

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You're right, sorry about that.

 

I did see something online from a couple of years ago where a TSB person gave out an email address. ceooffice@tsb.co.uk


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Thx for that, I'll give it a try, I don't hold out much hope with the usual complaints process which I've complained through, I need someone high-up to get involved with this. 

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I think the previous CEO's email was paul.pester@tsb.co.uk, you could try using that format with Debbie Crosbie's name and see what happens.

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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That's a good shout, I've done that. I'll update on here if I get a response from either. 

 

 

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I hope at least one gets delivered.

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Sorry was eating... That website should have it.

It will go to the Executive Complaints Team - Why have they removed that money? Are they reversing the funds in this case? IE Chargeback Successful to the 3rd party? 

 

This is a bit worrying... !

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I've sold bitcoin before on localbitcoins. Have you reached out to them as well?

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They said I needed to pay the funds back into the account, but the funds had already been transferred into an account for a private purchase (nothing to do with my trading business), that purchase has been made, & even if it hadn't, I told them the funds are rightfully mine & I have proved this beyond any shadow of doubt.

 

The lady in branch did mention "in that case, TSB takes the hit for that money". I told her that was ridiculous given the PHOTO ID of the buyer & ABSOLUTE proof I had provided, but it was their shout. It now seems they've decided to remove as much as they possibly can from my account, including all the overdraft, plus £65.00- odd that has put it beyond the agreed overdraft. Quite what the point of that is, I don't know, they can whistle - I want my £579.00, & if necessary will LBA them & take it into court. 

 

The fact that this has just happened, with no contact, no communication, is frankly laughable. I am completely done with them, I cannot see any point in going into Branch tomorrow anymore, I've wasted enough time on them. I'll see what (if any) response I get from the exec team & complaints procedure, failing that I'll advise I want a final response from them & take it to the Ombudsman & FSA.

 

If by any wild chance they side with TSB, I expect I will take my entire business into Crypto, cease trading sterling entirely,  & never ever deal with any UK bank, ever again. I trade with UK-based traders who have already done this, & they haven't looked back.

 

 

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UKDomains Yes I've not only reported the buyer & had his LBC account closed permanently, but I've printed this out & forwarded it to TSB.  

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This will be a long slog

Document everything - Go into branch tomorrow - If they tell you have an Outstanding Balance and cant release funds etc then you document that too.

 

Put a FOS Complaint together. You can then get the information from the FOS to see what they did in their investigation @ TSB. You should not have a debt outstanding to TSB but i fear that a CIFAS marker might be acoming. 

I would ask TSB to register you on CIFAS as you are a victim of Fraud in this circumstance and NOT a perpetrator. 

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13 hours ago, gavva2010 said:

UKDomains Yes I've not only reported the buyer & had his LBC account closed permanently, but I've printed this out & forwarded it to TSB.  

 

Great, I was going to suggest getting as much evidence together as possible, and the website siding with you would be a positive. Would be interesting if they would be able to confirm if the user logged in from usual computer and IP location as normal if a regular trader.

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UKDomains that's a great shout, I'll open a support ticket on LBC & hopefully they can provide that information.

 

I've just spent 2 hours in branch, it turns out the fraud dept. never received the proof of entitlement that the branch scanned & emailed to 2 separate email addresses given. That has led to the 3 chargeback amounts, & once again the girl on the other end of the phone had "no idea" about the £685.16, & said "it must be a calculation" well that's good & vague. I have the name of the person in branch I've been dealing with (who has been great btw, & has suffered through this this with me).

 

Also, by sheer coincidence, she was dealing with the very same rude woman in the fraud dept. who refused to give me her name the other day, but did provide it to the lady in Branch. So now I have that in full, & her employee ID. 

 

I did query with the woman in branch, why TSB aren't backing a customer who has proven beyond any doubt that the transaction was legitimate. Her response? "I got the strong impression when I called the Fraud  dept. on Monday, that we've already reversed the funds to Monzo Bank, this is why they want you to pay the money back into your account."

 

Well how stupid is that, based on what can only have been a verbal claim by Monzo's customer, this has led to TSB saying "here you go".  & then asking me to kindly underwrite their own stupidity.

 

I have also just received this by email:

 

Hi Gavin

 

Thank you for your note and for contacting me about the difficulties you’ve encountered with TSB. 

  

I have passed your note on to my Head of Customer Service and asked her to ensure that either she, or one of her team, contact you as soon as possible. 

  

Thank you once again for contacting me. 

  

Kind regards 

  

Debbie

  

Debbie Crosbie

CEO, TSB 

 

 

 

 

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That's good, hopefully your complaint now goes to the executive team and they get back to you quickly.

 

HB

Btw, which email address did Debbie Crosbie's message come from please?

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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On 23/05/2019 at 18:52, honeybee13 said:

I think the previous CEO's email was paul.pester@tsb.co.uk, you could try using that format with Debbie Crosbie's name and see what happens.

 

HB

 

It was from debbie.crosbie@tsb.co.uk, so thx to you for the idea HB, a reply within 24hrs from that address. It'll be Tuesday at the earliest now I think, also the Branch called Yesterday to request proof of ownership for a further 4 transactions made since the disputed transaction. I have the info to prove, but it's a massive headache trawling back through trading history to locate, print out, & notate these so they can make sense of them. 

 

All the time & materials I'm spending doing this are being noted, & form a compensation claim for loss of earnings, as part of the complaint, & I will make the exec complaints team fully aware that I expect to be recompensed for this. 

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I'm pleased that you got through to at least one correct email address. :)

 

Hopefully if the branch have been in touch it's good news and fingers crossed that the complaints team get in touch early next week. You're right to keep a note of your expenses, I would claim all those too.

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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