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    • Thanks dx100uk  ....  Thought not, but just checked to be sure and no neither one used ...  A parking/penalty slip, and in just the above post only.
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Darts123

PPS ANPR PCN - Paid but ANPR says no! - Crossway Centre Paignton

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Hi,

 

Someone who isn't me (SWIM) bought a parking ticket for a car park whilst on holiday

paid the correct fee

input their car reg

went to the shops and

then left in their vehicle within the required timeframe.

The car park operates ANPR 

 

a few weeks later SWIM received a PCN despite having followed all the rules of the car park.

The parking company is saying that they have no record of a payment for SWIMs car.

 

SWIM wrote to the parking company explaining that they paid and followed all the rules of the car park

however the parking company replied with a standard template letter and are now adding more to their PCN and threatening court action.

Unfortunately before receiving the PCN SWIMs partner threw the parking ticket away as part of cleaning out the car after the holiday.  

 

The parking company has pictures of SWIMs car entering and leaving the car park but is saying that no number plate was entered into their machine.

This is not correct

the number plate was definitely inputted and the fee paid in cash.

 

The car park is in a shocking state of disrepair and there have been several cases of the company issuing PCNs due to their own faulty equipment.  

 

The parking company have taken people to court before and lost.

However, the defendants in those cases had their tickets as proof of payment.

 

If SWIM is taken to court their argument would be that the private parking company's (PPC) equipment must have been faulty and that the only evidence the PPC has is the car driving into and out of the carpark.  

 

They have no real evidence of no payment.

In fact CCTV footage would show a payment has been made, furthermore there were no other cars in the nearly derelict car park so if a payment was registered on the machine but not a number plate that would have to be SWIMs. 

 

Dose SWIM no longer having a ticket ruin their chance of winning if this ends up in court?

SWIM is prepared to take it to court if needed.

 

Are there any similar cases of people winning in court despite no longer having their parking ticket?   

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please complete this:

 

and post up the appeal sent.

dx


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Posted (edited)

please answer the following questions.

 

1 Date of the infringement

 

09/02/19

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date]

 

15/02/19

 

3 Date received

 

17/02/19

 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?]

 

Yes

 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event?

 

There are photos of the car entering and leaving the carpark 

 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal]

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up

 

SWIM wrote a letter to the PPC explaining the situation and stated that SWIM would not enter into any further correspondence with the company. The PPC replied with a picture of their signage all of which SWIM followed. It is clear from the parking companies response that they did not properly read SWIMs letter and simply replied with a template.

 

7 Who is the parking company?

 

SWIM dosen't want to say at this stage incase they are reading the forums as currently the PPC are unaware that SWIM has lost their ticket. 

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town]

 

Same as above. But the car park is all but derelict. SWIM and their passengers were the only people to be in the car park at the time. It is filthy filled with needles and other unsavory litter. 

 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under.

theIAS 

 

There are two official bodies, the BPA and the IAS. If you are unsure,

please check HERE

 

If you have received any other correspondence, please mention it here

 

A letter replying to SWIMs letter.

 

A letter dated 11/05/19 from a debt collection agency asking for payment and stating that if it is not received by 25/05/19 they will advise their client take court action.

 

SWIM has not replied to either as SWIM said in their initial letter that SWIM would not enter into any further correspondence with the PPC

 

Edited by Darts123

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no need for secret squirrel ... name them and the parks location from the letters please.

the fact he has no proof of parking or paying now is immaterial

this will be a case of wrongly entered reg no.

not his problem if their ANPR system is not upto scratch and cant work things out.

 

 

 

 


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Company is Premier Parking Solutions 

 

Crossway Centre Paignton

 

SWIM deff entered reg correctly but the machines and car park as a whole are in a seriously bad state.   

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Yes I have seen other posts on here relating to them. I know that they do take people to court even when it seems they know they will lose. My question would be without a ticket what proof dose SWIM have and what case can SWIM make to defend themselves. 

 

Presumably the Courts in Devon must be tired of having to deal with PPS cases?

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Further, i contacted the Torbay Planning Department by telephone and email and they did an investigation for me going back to 1991 and they emailed me back staying there is NO APPLICATION OR GRANTED PERMISSION FOR ANYONE (Land owner or Leese) TO ERECT ANPR OR SIGNAGE FOR ENFORCEMENT OR FOR ANY REASON IN THE CROSSWAYS CAR PARK.

So i really hope that helps someone else. 

 

 


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I read through that today. It’s interesting, but can SWIM use the planning permission as a defence?

 

Also florence’s case is quite different. They have since put signage up relating to number plates as far as I am aware. Also she had her ticket as proof of payment. As I said before SWIM dose not as it was thrown away. 

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but have they got PP for their signs and ANPR poles now?

worthy of a new check.

 

the fact that she has no proof of purchase is immaterial

if it ever went to court they would have as you will demand.and they must..supply data/.a list of all car regs from anpr and all the data from the payment machine


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Would they have to supply the data from their payment machines to the court? If so they would be stuffed as SWIM and co were the only people in the car park at that time and would of been the only person to use the machine. Therefore any payments in that machine would relate to SWIMs car.  

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ofcourse they would.


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That disclosure and the fact that a wrong entry of Reg No is de-minimis, so a trifle might be enough to discourage them from trying ourt, but blinded by greed they might be silly.


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what tends to happen is they start proceedings and hope you wee yourself and pay up as they know that they are likely to lose the claim at an actual hearing. They do this for 2 reasons, firstly they are greedy and dont want to give up on a payday, regardless of how undeserving it is and secondly, if they just admit they are wrong them people will start abusing them by obeying the law but not their silly games and they will lose all potential income once word gets out so they try and use the courts to limit their exposure to reality.

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Thanks for the replies. Time will tell what course of action they decide to take. 

 

They have CCTV pointing at the machines so footage from the day would show SWIM paying for their parking. Also as you say their records would show parking was paid for. 

 

What is to stop them telling the court they don't have those records? Presumably if they did that then it would discredit their whole case?

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without them they cant prove anything.

think about it??

it for them to prove you didn't pay

not for you to prove you did


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if they start telling lies about what they do and dont have as far as CCTV goes then they couild end up being fined £6.5 million by the ICO.

The data will be requested in the fullness of timea nd then see whatn they say. basically they are damned either way, if they have destroyed it then they cnat prove their claim and if they produce it they will show their claim is just vex.

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SWIM has received two letters from debt recovery plus. One asking for £160 by a certain date. When this wasn’t paid they sent a second stating that they had advised PPS to take them to court but PPS have decided to extend the deadline to pay by 14 days. DRP are saying if it isn’t paid by then they will advise court action. 

 

I assume this is all standard practice for them. 

 

Do you think SWIM should write to them stating they are more than happy to fight this in court or continue to ignore? SWIM has only corresponded with them once. 

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until/unless you get a letter of claim under PAP rules from one of their fake/tame paper only solicitors you ignore everyone

 

any DCA on ANY debt have zero legal powers

and are

NOT BAILLIFFS 

 


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They will probably employ a solicitor to send out another threatogram before sending a PAP letter. When you get that letter before action THEN you respond but until them you ignore.

Let them spend their money on rubbish, it wont change the outcome and responding to an uninterested third party wont make any difference either. they are hoping that you fold and pay up now as they know that they stand a poor chance of actually winning a court claim as the onus is on them to prove they are right and you are wrong and as said destroying the evidence that helps you will also kill ther claim and get them into trouble so they will try ignorance first and them probably just fail to proceed when they realise that you arent going to play along with their deception

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