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    • It's been a while since I had my head in this subject area, but Carey v HSBC was based on determining what the creditor could do to fulfill their obligations when issued with a s.77/78 request by the debtor. It determined that a reconstituted agreement would satisfy the request, so long as it was a true copy. It does not mean the agreement is enforceable if put before the courts. The debtor could, if provided with a recon, decide to accept it and carry on as normal, or dispute it (and potentially withhold payments until the dispute is resolved - if ever).   You are in the position of disputing the recon as being properly executed (amongst other things), which is now at the stage of being put before the court to resolve. Your protection is s.127(3) of the CCA 1974 (repealed in April 2006), which states:   s.127 (3)The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a) (signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).   The above is what makes a recon unenforceable in your case - but, you need to make a positive assertion to that effect. Whilst DX says Carey is not applicable, I think it's relevant. It explains the role of a recon in law, and it also explains what a properly executed credit agreement looks like, to the extent that could be declared enforceable by an order of the court. It also confirms that the creditor can continue to attempt collection of the debt, but they have no means of recourse through the courts. I would certainly be quoting Carey in support of an assertion that the claimant's recon is unenforceable, and s.127(3) prevents the court from making an enforcement order where s.61(1) was not complied with - as appears to be the case. You will need to spell it out for the court within your statement though. If the claimant is relying on their recon as evidence of their compliance of s.61(1)a then they fail comprehensively due to... (list the points) ...look up what the required prescribed terms are and list them as not being present (the text cannot be read, so they cannot be said to exist on the agreement), and also that all the terms are not contained within the one document (Carey case goes into this in some detail).   You can also throw in your other points relating to the balance and reference numbers, default notice, etc. Pull their case apart with as many arguments as you can. Explain why certain things are needed for the claim to succeed and how the claimant's case does not stack up on those points. Force the claimant to defeat your arguments with appropriate proof/evidence. Cast doubt in every direction you can, but properly support your arguments.   Hope this helps.
    • Am I right in thinking your brother is the keeper of the vehicle, and so VCS are suing him - but you were driving on the day?  In your first post you wrote "I received a PCN" but did you really mean your brother did?   if so, you can prepare the paperwork in his name if you want, and a decent defence later on will probably lead Simple Simon of VCS to wet himself and give in (if you look through the forum, there are very recent examples of this).   However, in the unlikely event that VCS go all the way to court, it will be your brother appearing, so it'd be a good idea if he too started to learn the legal procedure and how to beat these fleecers.
    • 100's of no stopping threads here  just use our search top right   get reading up.    
    • plenty of our two - five line generic defences here already   but you are far too early yet to bother about defence.   your job now is to get reading up any/all PCN claimform threads here in this very same forum get upto speed.    
    • i cant find any ACDB T&C's here yet    
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andrew1402

lowell Claimform - OH's old EON debt

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Already advised in my last post....I really cant make it any clearer...


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I understand paragraph 5 and what you advised I'm just trying to clarify the situation basically I'm saying no to mediation because I dont have enough information about the claim to enter negotiations am ,but still have to complete the N180 form am I correct in saying that?

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You have to complete the N180 anyway.....whether you agree or not to mediation..otherwise your defence will be struck out and you get a CCJ


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so we agree to the case to being referred to mediation service? and agree that small claims track for this case? and also find an address for a court near me not them I guess as they never filled that bit in

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you are the defendant, they come to the local court convenient to YOU

if you go search N180 in our search facility up top

we normally advise to agree to mediation [unless the claimants claim is statute barred]

 

you are thus entering into the spirit of the mediation process, 

you continue to agree to it until the actual day of the telephone mediation itself

 

THEN if you have not received enough information from the claimant to make an informed decision 

WHEN the same questions on the N180 form are asked again by the mediation service before it starts

you say NO.

mediation will fail.

the case will be referred to the local court for allocation for a hearing

IF the claimant pay a fee.

they might not

they might discontinue

we cant see into the future.

 

dx

 


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5 hours ago, andrew1402 said:

so we agree to the case to being referred to mediation service? and agree that small claims track for this case? and also find an address for a court near me not them I guess as they never filled that bit in

 

The claimant does not fill that in...the defendant completes that section....its allocated to your local county court..you are the litigant defendant.

 

Have you actually read any other threads on the court claim process ?  :classic_ohmy:


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an update of sorts

 

my Mrs received an email from the court saying about times for mediation 9-1 and appointments are first come first served

 

what we can gather no appointment as yet and no more information sent from Lowell

 

if appointment does come in our case

not enough information in our case

all my wife has to say is no to that part

 

am I right?

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wont be from the court 

but the mediation service...???

 

but, yes you are correct...

 


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Maybe, so let me get this straight they go through questionnaire questions first just for us to tell them not received enough information to proceed seems hardly worth it but understand. 

Hopefully we won't have to go to court could do without the stress at the moment.

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post 162...already explained all this before

dx

 


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I know I've slept since then but anyway nothing wrong with a bit of clarification making sure we get it right 

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update no appointment been made by phone call apparently unable to it's now transferred to County Court Hearing Centre in which we have to await Judges directions which will be sent to us in a notice of allocation 

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