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PRA PAPLOC Now Claimform - old Joint LLoyds OD account

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Name of the Claimant PRA GROUP (UK) LIMITED

 

Date of issue – 10 SEP 2019

 

Particulars of Claim

 

What is the claim for – the reason they have issued the claim?

1.The claimant claims the sum of £2300 for an outstanding debt owed.

 

2.On 01/04/2012 the defendant entered into an agreement with Lloyd bank plc for an overdraft account under the reference X.

 

3.on 01/04/2016 the defendant defaulted on the agreement with an outstanding balance of £2300.

 

4.On 01/06/2017 the debt of £2300 was assigned to PRA Group UK LTD. Notices of assignment were sent to the defendant in accordance with s136 law of property act 1925.

 

5.Payments of £20 were received up to 01/03/2019 and adjustments have been made in the sum of £3.

 

AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS

1. The sum of £2300.

 

What is the total value of the claim?

£2500

 

Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC ( Pre Action Protocol) ?Yes

 

Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred?No

 

Did you inform the claimant of your change of address?N/A


Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account?Bank Account (Overdraft)

 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ?After

 

Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ?In branch

 

Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/ Equifax /Etc...) ?Yes

 

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim.Debt purchaser

 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment?Yes

 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor?Yes

 

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Default sums” – at least once a year ?Yes

 

Why did you cease payments?Always kept £1 payment going

 

What was the date of your last payment?Ongoing

 

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved?No

 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan?Yes

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so only a claimform against one of you in a joint OD ?


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Yes, thats correct.

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pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform.
.
 register as an individual
 note the long gateway number given
 then log in
.
 select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.
.
 then using the details required from the claimform
.
 defend all
 leave jurisdiction unticked
 you DO NOT file a defence at this time
 click thru to the end
 confirm and exit MCOL.
.
 get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors [if one is not listed send to the claimant]
.
.

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/332546-legal-cpr-3114-request-request-for-information-when-a-claim-has-been-issued/
.
.
type your name ONLY

no need to sign anything
.
you DO NOT await the return of paperwork.
you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform [1 in the count]
 


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So it's ok that they just sent the claim form to my wife and not to us both?

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Should I click 'Defend All'?

I would've though I'd click 'Defend Part'. Then subtract all the charges from the total amount they are claiming.

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not unless you want a guaranteed ccj...


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Which bit do I delete, as per the instructions in the attached picture?

Just the text underlined in red, or the text underlined in blue too?

ff.JPG

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theres a star which indicates which bit and its in the same colour as the star note...……...


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It doesn't make any sense though?

You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

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You remove all of it as your claim was served from MCOL CCBC......they cant attach anything to an electronic claim.


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CPR 31:14 was sent on 16th.

So what now? I only have a couple of days to put my defense in

 

The advice on this forum has been to contest the whole amount. But how am I supposed to prove that in court? Surely this option is for cases where you can prove the debt is not in your name, or you've already paid it.

Surely I MUST put my defense in to pay part of the debt.

Edited by benq

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guaranteed ccj if you do,

 

there are numerous claimform OD defences here already.

use the search 

your defence is due by 4pm 11th oct.


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I need some help customizing a defense.

I still fail to see how I can argue that the whole sum should be written off.

What is my defense?

The account only goes back to 2012. I've got £1030 of charges and interest. How can I argue that I shouldn't repay a penny?

 

I did search as you advised in your last post, and the reason people have won, is on a technicality i.e. the debt collector cant produce a certain document, so the court has thrown it out.

As all of the paperwork and procedure from PRA looks to be in order, i cannot use a 'technicality' as my defense.

Unless I use the fact that the account was a joint account, and they are only taking my wife to court, not both of us.

 

Edited by benq

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But they produced nothing to disprove that

Just find our std od no paperwork/holding defence

Dont just look at won cases..

 

Dx


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Referencing the Particulars of the Claim:

1. The claimant claims the sum of £2300 for an outstanding debt owed.

2. On 01/04/2012 the defendant entered into an agreement with Lloyd bank plc for an overdraft account under the reference X.

3. On 01/04/2016 the defendant defaulted on the agreement with an outstanding balance of £2300.

4. On 01/06/2017 the debt of £2300 was assigned to PRA Group UK LTD. Notices of assignment were sent to the defendant in accordance with s136 law of property act 1925.

5. Payments of £20 were received up to 01/03/2019 and adjustments have been made in the sum of £3.

 

For 'Particular number 2', i see a lot of other people saying this like 'Paragraph 2 is denied. I do not recall having this account'. I obviously cannot put that, what would i put?

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Why not?

have they sent anything to prove it yet?


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Yes, see post 53

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Well not since claim issuance.

most if not all of the debt concerns charges and the interest they caused and PAF fees for ins you didnt want nor need.

Find the std Od defence.

 

Dx


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Ok, so they now need to send proof after the issuance of a Claim, understood.

The debt is for £2300, and I've calculated £1030 of charges and interest.

 

So that leaves £1270.

 

I've read a few defences, but none of them are for OD's. Do you have a link to a standard OD defence?

 

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Why are you looking at landlord, parking ticket and payday loads claims for??

Type in claimform OD

use the custom google search bar

On the left after hitting the top cag square s logo

 

 


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Particulars of the Claim:

1. The claimant claims the sum of £2300 for an outstanding debt owed.

2. On 01/04/2012 the defendant entered into an agreement with Lloyd bank plc for an overdraft account under the reference X.

3. On 01/04/2016 the defendant defaulted on the agreement with an outstanding balance of £2300.

4. On 01/06/2017 the debt of £2300 was assigned to PRA Group UK LTD. Notices of assignment were sent to the defendant in accordance with s136 law of property act 1925.

5. Payments of £20 were received up to 01/03/2019 and adjustments have been made in the sum of £3.

 

Defence:

1. It is admitted with regards to the Defendant once having had banking facilities with the original creditor Lloyds Bank. It is denied that I am indebted for any alleged balance claimed.

 

2. Paragraph 2 is accepted.

 

3. Paragraph 3 is accepted.

Any alleged amount claimed could also consist of default penalties/charges levied on the account for alleged late, rejected or over limit payments. The court will be aware that these charge types and the recoverability thereof have been judicially declared to be susceptible to assessments of fairness under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 The Office of Fair Trading v Abbey National PLC and others (2009). I will contend at trial that such charges are unfair in their entirety.

 

4. Paragraph 4 is accepted.

 

5. Paragraph 5 is accepted

 

6. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 The claimant is also put to strict proof to:-.

 (a) Provide a copy agreement/overdraft facility arrangement along with the Terms and conditions at inception that this claim is based on.
 (b) Provide a copy of the Notice served under 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974 Demand /Recall Notice and Notice of Assignment.
 (c) Provide a breakdown of all excessive charging/fees and show how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed.
 (d) Show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.
 (e) Show how they have complied with sections III & IV of Practice Direction - Pre-action Conduct.

 

7. On receipt of this claim I requested documentation by way of a CPR 31.14 request dated September 2019 namely the Agreement and Termination Demand Notice referred to in the claimants Particulars of Claim. The Claimant has failed to comply with this request.

 

By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

Edited by benq

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not bad but you've missed off the 1st defence sentence which is an overall disclaimer about the while claim.

 

I would not be using the word accepted everywhere either.

else your are admitting to things you don't need too.

make them prove it!!

as an example, since the claim has been made they not replied with a notice of assignment 

so your 4 is wrong...geddit??

 

try these: 

 

Heres a more detailed version of an overdraft defence...obviously you would have to edit to suit your particulars....
.


 1. It is admitted with regards to the Defendant entering into an Agreement referred to in the Particulars of Claim ('the Agreement') with the [insert original creditor] .
.
 2. The defendant denies that the account exceeded the agreed overdraft limit due to overdrawing of funds but is as a result of unfair and extortionate bank charges/penalties being applied to the account.
.
 3. I refute the claimants claim is owed or payable. The amount claimed is comprised of amongst others default penalties/charges levied on the account for alleged late, missed or over limit payments. The court will be aware that these charge types and the recoverability thereof have been judicially declared to be susceptible to assessments of fairness under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 The Office of Fair Trading v Abbey National PLC and others (2009). I will contend at trial that such charges are unfair in their entirety.
.
 4. It is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer crediticon Act 1974. The Claimant has yet to provide a copy of the Notice of Assignment its claim relies upon.
.
 5. The claimant is denied from added section 69 interest within the total claimed that as yet to be decided at the courts discretion.
.
 6. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.
.
 The claimant is also put to strict proof to:-.
.
 (a) Provide a copy agreement/facility arrangement along with the Terms and conditions at inception, that this claim is based on.
 (b) Provide a copy of the Notice served under 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974 Demand /Recall Notice and Notice of Assignment.
 (c) Provide a breakdown of their excessive charging/fees levied to the account with justification.
 (d) Show how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed.
 (e) Show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.
 (f) Show how they have complied with sections III & IV of Practice Direction - Pre-action Conduct.
.
 7. On receipt of this claim I requested documentation by way of a CPR 31.14 request dated [xxxxxxx] namely the Agreement and Termination Demand Notice referred to in the claimants Particulars of Claim. The Claimant has failed to comply with this request.
.
 By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.
.
 ..............


or 

 

Particulars of Claim

 1.The claim is for the sum of 2470.56 in respect of monies owing pursuant to an overdraft facility under account number XXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX.

 2.The debt was legally assigned by Santander UK Plc to the claimant and notice has been served. 

 3.The Defendant has failed to repay overdrawn sums owing under the terms and conditions of the bank account. 


 The Claimant claims:

 The sum of 2470.56 Interest pursuant to s69 of the county courticon Act 1984 at a rate of 8.00 percent from the 7/04/2015 to the date hereof 14 days is the sum of 7.58Daily interest at the rate of .54

 Costs

Defence

 The Defendant contends that the particulars of the claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made. 

 1. It is admitted with regards to the Defendant once having had banking facilities with the original creditor Santander Bank. It is denied that I am indebted for any alleged balance claimed. 

 2. Paragraph 2 is denied.I am not aware or ever receiving any Notice of Assignment pursuant to the Law and Property Act 1925. It is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer crediticon Act 1974. The Claimant has yet to provide a copy of the Notice of Assignment its claim relies upon. 

 3. Paragraph 3 is denied. The Original Creditor has never served notice pursuant to 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974

 Any alleged amount claimed could only consist in the main of default penalties/charges levied on the account for alleged late, rejected or over limit payments. The court will be aware that these charge types and the recoverability thereof have been judicially declared to be susceptible to assessments of fairness under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 The Office of Fair Trading v Abbeyicon National PLC and others (2009). I will contend at trial that such charges are unfair in their entirety.

 4. As per Civil Procedureicon Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 The claimant is also put to strict proof to:-.

 (a) Provide a copy agreement/overdraft facility arrangement along with the Terms and conditions at inception that this claim is based on.
 (b) Provide a copy of the Notice served under 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974 Demand /Recall Notice and Notice of Assignment.
 (c) Provide a breakdown of all excessive charging/fees and show how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed. 
 (d) Show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.
 (e) Show how they have complied with sections III & IV of Practice Direction - Pre-action Conduct.

 5. On receipt of this claim I requested documentation by way of a CPR 31.14 request dated April 2015 namely the Agreement and Termination Demand Notice referred to in the claimants Particulars of Claim. The Claimant has failed to comply with this request. 

 By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief. 
Regards

 Andy

 

or 

 

Defence

 1. Paragraph 1,I accept that I have in the past held a current account with Lloyds Bank Plc. I have not serviced this account since xxxxxx due to the punitive charges and interest being applied which made the account untenable and impossible to facilitate. The amount claimed is far in excess of any agreed overdraft limit with Lloyds Bank. I deny that the account exceeded an agreed overdraft limit due to overdrawing of funds and claim that this is a result of unfair and extortionate bank charges/penalties being applied to the account. It is therefore denied that I am indebted for any alleged outstanding residue.

 2.Paragraph 2 is denied as the original creditor has failed to serve a Notice served under 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974 Demand /Recall Notice and the Claimant is put to strict proof to evidence any breach.

 3. Paragraph 3 is denied I have never been served a Notices of Assignment in accordance with s.136 Law of Property Act 1925.

 4. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 Therefore the claimant is also put to strict proof to:-.

 (a) Provide a copy agreement/facility arrangement along with the Terms and conditions at inception, which this claim is based on.
 (b) Provide a copy of the Notice served under 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974 Demand /Recall Notice and Notice of Assignment.
 (c) Provide a breakdown of their excessive charging/fees levied to the account and;.
 (d) Show how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed.
 (e) Show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.
 (f) Show how they have complied with sections III & IV of Practice Direction - Pre-action Conduct.

 5. On receipt of this claim I immediately requested documentation by way of a CPR 31.14 request, which was received by the Claimant on the xxxxxxxx. The Claimant has failed to comply with this request. Therefore the claimant in their non compliance to my requests have frustrated my attempts to clarify their claim and against pre action protocol should be considered when the question of costs arise.

 7.By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.
 

 

 

 

 


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Responding to your PM 

 

So are you looking at a way to settle this debt to prevent this claim proceeding ? I would s till advise you to submit a defence in the meantime...otherwise the claimant can get judgment if you miss your defence date.....you can still negotiate after submitting your defence and hopefully the claim will be stayed allowing time for this.

 

Andy


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Posted (edited)

Thanks for the tip Andyorch are you able to check over this defence?

 

For reference:

Particulars of the Claim:

1. The claimant claims the sum of £2300 for an outstanding debt owed.
2. On 01/04/2012 the defendant entered into an agreement with Lloyd bank plc for an overdraft account under the reference X.
3. On 01/04/2016 the defendant defaulted on the agreement with an outstanding balance of £2300.
4. On 01/06/2017 the debt of £2300 was assigned to PRA Group UK LTD. Notices of assignment were sent to the defendant in accordance with s136 law of property act 1925.
5. Payments of £20 were received up to 01/03/2019 and adjustments have been made in the sum of £3.

 

Defence:
The Defendant contends that the particulars of the claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

1. It is admitted with regards to the Defendant once having had banking facilities with the original creditor Lloyds Bank. It is denied that the Defendant indebted for any alleged balance claimed.

2. Paragraph 2 is denied. The defendant is unaware of ever knowingly entering into an agreement with Lloyds bank plc for an overdraft account under the reference X.

3. Paragraph 3 is denied.

4. Paragraph 4 is denied. The Defendant is not aware of ever receiving any Notice of Assignment pursuant to the Law and Property Act 1925. It is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974.

5. Paragraph 5 is accepted

6. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.
 The claimant is also put to strict proof to:
 (a) Provide a copy agreement/overdraft facility arrangement along with the Terms and conditions at inception that this claim is based on.
 (b) Provide a copy of the Notice served under 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974 Demand /Recall Notice and Notice of Assignment.
 (c) Provide a breakdown of all excessive charging/fees and show how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed.
 (d) Show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.
 (e) Show how they have complied with sections III & IV of Practice Direction - Pre-action Conduct.

7. On receipt of this claim The Defendant requested documentation by way of a CPR 31.14 request dated x September 2019. The Claimant has failed to comply with this request.

8. By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

 

Edited by benq

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