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landlords unsecured pers loan claimform - suing son as well as guarantors..

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hi.

today i have received a letter from a solicitor regarding a unsecured loan from my son in laws landlord in 2016.

it was for 60k,

 

when the loan was taken i never knew any thing about the loan.

my son took it for investment for his brothers business

unfortunately the business was folded in 2017.

 

i went to talk to this person and agreed that i will pay his dept off,

he agreed and shook hands.

 

since then i paid off 45k.

but now he wants 15k which i owe which i will pay as i promised.

but he wants 22k more for profit of the business.

 

when i questioned he says your son agreed to pay 2k a month profit until its paid off.

the solicitor has also send one copy of a letter to my son in law saying that he was a guarantor.

and given to pay within 14 days.

 

my son in law is worried that he might go for charge on his property. 

 

can i send the solicitor cca.

 

all the help will be appreciated. thank you.

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A CCA request is only relevant where the debt is a consumer credit agreement, it's unlikely this is. What would be useful is a copy of the agreement which your son and son in law signed, then you would know what they are liable for if anything. If there is liability and your son in law is the guarantor, your son and son in law have joint and several liability. If a CCJ is granted against your son in law, a charging order on his property is a possibility.

 

 

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thanks for the reply. my son in law says there was no agreement signed by any of them.it was a private loan and there was no other witnesses or solicitor present., i just interduced to him. i  did ask for the agreement papers to the lender but he has never produced them.

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did your son give you a signed letter of authority to pay this debt on his behalf?

if not you've been a complete mug in paying this for him and are £45k down.

 

you have not legal authority to agree or make any further payments

let him take your son to court and LOSE!

 

 


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thanks again.no my son did not give me any signed letter or authority, it was just a good gesture as it was my son in laws landlord. i didn't thought he was so greedy and would do this. do you think i should write to his solicitor for signed agreements papers or wait.

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you write to the solicitor and ask for  a copy of the signed papers as you would have had to be included in the agreement

You get your s-i-l to do the same, that way they cnat say thtat it is a data protection issue.

 

in the meanwhile ti was never your debt so ask yourself why are they trying to rook you for more money?

 

as for the person going for a charge on his property- in law the debt doesnt exist and for this reason - without an agreement of terms to determine when the loan should be repaid the debt never becomes payable.

The landlord will then ahve to wait until S-i-l dies and claim form his estate. Without an agreeemnt no interest can be added either

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thanks for the info. i will do excatley as you have said.

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hi. i have received the letter from the claimants solicitor which included the agreement documents.

 

on the agreement papers it does show my son and sil signature with the witness.

but there is no sign from me on the agreement.

 

it also says we have instruction to issue court proceedings and preparing for court proceeding in 2 days time if not paid within 7 days.12 june.

 

if not paid then the claim forms will be sent to the  court for issuing on that date.

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Posted (edited)

Did you get any benefit (the legal concept of 'consideration', a benefit or thing of value) from agreeing to repay the loan?

If so, then you may have created a contract. If  not, and you didn't agree to act as a guarantor, then there is no contract between the creditor and yourself : they can go after your son and son in law, but not you.

 

If he is going to do that anyhow, consider holding off using the last 15k, until the matter is settled and you can see how best you can utilise it.

Edited by BazzaS

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shall i wait for the court proceedings.

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thanks bazzas , dont quite know what you mean by the legal concept of 'consideration', a benefit or thing of value.

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“Consideration can be anything of value (such as .... goods, money, services, or promises of any of these), which each party gives as a quid pro quo to support their side of the bargain”

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consideration_in_English_law

 

Consideration (for both parties) is a necessity for an enforceable contract to have been created ( unless the agreement was made in a ‘deed’, see below)

 

So, it doesn’t have to be money per se, but something of value must be offered by each.

You offering to pay is a promise of something of value. Did you get anything (or the promise of anything) in return?

 

If the agreement was “I’ll settle his debts” but you got nothing of value in return, and the agreement was made “by shaking hands” (and thus not by a legal document of a “deed” [like the ‘deed’ to a house...), then the agreement is NOT a legally enforceable contract between the creditor and you.

 

If this is the case he can sue your son and/or SIL, but not you. Who is he threatening to sue?

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he is suing my son and sil as a guarantor,  he said he may sue me as a guarantor for both. 

 

my son and sil has said the witness name on the agreement papers they never saw him or know him, and they never signed any agreement in front of anybody. 

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So as suspected you are out of the picture and that is how it should be.

They may threaten all sorts of stuff to get you to somehow admit that you did make such an undertaking but only you can drop yourself in it from now on,

 

they have no evidence and they know that suing you is not likely to be a successful move so keep your mouth shut and do not respond to their threats.

 

Your son and SiL have their own battle to fight,

be supportive but dont offer anything to help bail them out.

 

chances are the bulk of any claim will be struck out and the claimant end up with  no costs order so may well end up out of pocket for trying their luck in the first place

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thanks for the info. is there anything my son and SIL can do at this stage

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hi all, just got a letter from the court asking for the defence.  theirs one for me my son and sil. its got be send within 28 days.

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you mean you have a claimform pack N1 from a court?


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yes.

 

dosent say any number. on it but its a pck from court and forms about income & expenses. also whether accept the claim or not.

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so its a court claimform then..

 

please complete this:

 

 

 

 

 


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thanks i will print and then load on here tomorrow.

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no need to print anything

just copy and paste the Q's to here

answer each one at the end

hit submit reply.

 

 


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Name of the Claimant ? it’s a private name and address

 

Date of issue –   no date shown .theres a sticker saying the case number over the box.

 

Particulars of Claim

 

What is the claim for – 

1.

 

A claim for monies due=

.on the 11 April 2016 the claimants entered  in to agreement with the first and second to loan the first defendant the sum of £6300 on the terms set out in the agreement dated 11 April 2016.

 

b The first defendant was to repay the claimant the full amount of £63000 within the 6 months from the date of agreement. The first defendant would make £2000 to the claimant on each 1st day of the month.

 

C in the event of the 1st defendant failer to repay the loan or the monthly payment the defendant was to transfer the 30% ownership of the 2 businesses.

 

2  the second defendant agreed to be the guarantor to the first defendant with the agreement dated above and in the event of any default of the repayment  by the first defendant and the value of of the eforementioned business was not sufficient to cover the amount borrowed or any outstanding monthly payment agreed the repayment amount loan.

 

3   third defendant agreed to pay the £63000 to the claimant together with the monthly payment of £2000 on behalf of the first and second. [This is me as I never signed or said I will pay more then the amount borrowed].

 

What is the total value of the claim? £46600.00 plus court fees of £2330 +solicitors £100

 

Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC ( Pre Action Protocol) ? not sure

 

Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? no

 

Did you inform the claimant of your change of address?


Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account?   No was a private loan

 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? no

 

Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ?  not really

 

Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/ Equifax /Etc...) ? no

 

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. yes

 

further the claimants has said in his statement that £68000 payment has been paid.[ £45 by me and £23000 by my son.]

 

thanks for all the help so far.

 

do i need to send anything at the moment.

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See my previous post(s): unless you gained a benefit by agreeing to repay some or all of the loan, no contract was formed, and you don't have to pay anything (unless you promised to pay by signing a 'deed').

 

From the sums involved, this action is likely to fall outside of the small claims track of the County Court, so costs can be awarded.

 

I'd suggest writing to the claimant, noting that there is no enforceable agreement between them and you (as the 3rd defendant), and given this is likely to not be in the small claims track they might wish to discontinue their claim against you before you incur costs that you'll seek from them.

 

You might wish to see a solicitor (they'll often give an initial 1/2 hr consultation for free), who may agree this is correct and offer to write a letter phrasing it for you, for a nominal sum.

 

That doesn't do anything for the first and second defendant, BTW, who (if they owe the money) can't necessarily avail themselves of this approach.

 

If this doesn't work you MUST:

a) file an Acknowledgment of Service (AoS) in time, and

b) file a defence in time, otherwise

the claimaint might succeed in getting a judgment against you 'in default', (... simply by you not replying with an intent to defend, and then your defence, in time)

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ok thanks. will my son and sil will have to file there defence.as my son has agrees to take this blame on him as he said he will defend as he never signed any papers or agreed about the profit from the business which he never did or had. 

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Just to be clear: All three defendants have to submit (AoS, and) defences.

If the 1st 2 defendants submit (AoS and defence) and you miss either /  both, they can get a judgement in default against you.

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