VCS/BW PCN PAPLOC Now Claimform - no permit - Woodside Business Park, Peel Investments, Birkenhead

[Dave962]

Thanks DX, my thoughts exactly.

 

Im back in work Saturday though so thats why I'm trying to make a good stab at it this week. I'll still be able to keep own top of things next week though.

[lookinforinfo]

I am not findin their WS on your thread. Could you please post it up or point out where it is on here so that we can help with giving you help to respond to what will be mostly garbage from them.

[Dave962]

Hi LFI

 

I don't have a copy of the VCS WS yet sorry. As soon as I receive I will put it up.

 

Just got this back off BPA, so I've made reference in my WS...

 

Thank you for your email regarding Vehicle Control Services Ltd.

 

Vehicle Control Services Limited is a corporate member of the British Parking Association (BPA) but as they do not subscribe to our Approved Operators' Scheme (AOS) they are not therefore bound by our Code of Practice for the management of parking on private land.

 

As a Corporate member of the BPA, this operator may use our BPA logo on their letters and signage but must not use the BPA AOS logo.

 

BPA logo:                                             BPA AOS logo:

 

 

Private parking operators must be members of an Accredited Trade Association (ATA) that are recognised by the DVLA to request keeper details. There are currently two ATAs in relation to parking on private land and each ATA has its own Code of Practice.

 

Vehicle Control Services Limited is a member of the International Parking Community (IPC) who operate their own Code, Compliance Audits and Appeals. They also manage complaints about their own members. 

 

I trust this information is of assistance to you.

 

Kind regards,

 

Zoe Rudwick

Senior Compliance Investigations Officer

British Parking Association         

Tel: 01444 447 300

Email: [email protected]

Web:  www.britishparking.co.uk

[Dave962]

Hi all, is it ok to post another WS version up?

 

If I'm talking total nonsense in any of it please let me know. I'll continue to refine though every day...

 

The page numbers are all to pot but I need to fix this, I've got Pages on a Mac so its not the easiest to understand.

 

Thanks as always.

 

 

 

 

[FTMDave]

I've converted your attachment to PDF.  I'm pretty sure personal details are embedded into DOC files and PDF is safer.  Best to keep the fleecers guessing.

[Dave962]

Thanks FMT, I was gonna do that, that is one thing I can do on a Mac!

[Dave962]

Just received this off the port authority...

 

Will this suffice as an explanation of the current Byelaws? I can still include a copy of the DRAFT 2020 ones so the Judge can at least see what copy of the Byelaws is still like. Or maybe its better to not include the 2020 ones full stop?

 

Apologies for the delayed response.

 

My colleague, has relayed the context of your question. The Byelaws on the website are in consultation and are not currently in force. As such the relevant Byelaws in force are the Docks, Quays and Jetties Byelaws 1968. However, in those Byelaws, the following definitions apply:

 

            “Board” means The Mersey Docks and Harbour Board [now The Mersey Docks and Harbour Company Limited]

 

            “dock” means any dock, graving dock, basin, lock, cut, entrance or passage for the time being belonging to or under the management of the Board

 

“jetty” means any works for the time being belonging to or under the management of the Board (other than any river wall) designed for the berthing of vessels in the river Mersey and  constructed upon the shore or bed thereof; and includes any bridge, roadway or footway affording access thereto

 

“quay” means any quay, road, land, bridge or other works including the buildings and erections thereon for the time being belonging to or under the management of the Board which is not separated from a dock by a road repairable by the inhabitants at large, but does not include Prince’s Parade, Riverside Station or any stage or jetty

 

In respect of Woodside Business Park, I am advised by our Estates Department that the area was sold by The Mersey Docks and Harbour Company Limited to Peel Land and Property. Therefore, as the area is not belonging to or under the management of the Board, the Docks, Quays and Jetties Byelaws 1968 would not apply there.

 

 

[Dave962]

...There is a para in the 2020 ones that I've asked him whether it is included in the 1968 ones, that is.

 

Parking of Vehicles during Night

 

A person shall not leave a vehicle standing at any place other than in a place designated by the Company for the parking of vehicles, at any time between the hours of 7pm and 8am unless written permission to leave the vehicle standing on the Dock Estate has been obtained from the Company provided that this Byelaw shall not apply to:-

(a) Any mobile crane, cargo truck or other Vehicle which is normally employed in the moving or handling of goods upon a Quay or Jetty, or, 

(b) Any vehicle which is on the quay or jetty for the purpose of any work then in progress on or at that quay or jetty moving or handling goods.

[dx100uk]

5 hours ago, Dave962 said:

In respect of Woodside Business Park, I am advised by our Estates Department that the area was sold by The Mersey Docks and Harbour Company Limited to Peel Land and Property. Therefore, as the area is not belonging to or under the management of the Board, the Docks, Quays and Jetties Byelaws 1968 would not apply there.

 

the area your 'ticket' was issued in is thus not covered by the byelaws

however, you have a permit, displayed or not, that rumps their parking contract.

 

dx

 

[Dave962]

Thanks DX

 

Should I still leave the Byelaw stuff in then, including what the port authority just said, only leaving the last part out?

 

I mean, the sign is still there, why then has that never been removed?

 

Also, there is still no VCS sign on the entrance to the car park at all

[dx100uk]

i wouldn't be mentioning byelaws at all.

 

you have a permit, that trumps their contract.

and yes as has already been explained, signs, what they say and where they are could form a very important part of your WS.

however, it would be far better to await the claimants WS and you use yours to counter theirs point by point.

[Dave962]

Thanks DX. For the record, I asked him if their was any reference to Parking at night as there was in the 2020 ones. This was his reply...

 

 

here is a scan of the provisions regarding parking from the 1968 Byelaws. As I mentioned, the Byelaws are applicable only to areas belonging to or managed by MDHC.

CamScanner 10-06-2020 14.10.52_1.pdf

[dx100uk]

but you need to be clear here:...........

 

the area you parked on was sold, so byelaws do not thus apply..

 

i believe this has been suffiently clarified now?

 

 

[Dave962]

You’re right DX, probably just born out of frustration as I think I’ve dedicated a good chunk of my WS to Byelaws 

 

as you say no probs, hopefully I’ll see their WS soon.

[Dave962]

Just had todays mail - no letter.

 

I guess time is running out to receive theirs before I send mine?

 

Hi all

 

I'm sorry to be a pain, but I just wanted to see if anyone had any further advice, I think my WS needs posting asap?

 

Wrt to the schedule of costs, is this something I can include within it? 

[AndyOrch]

Quote

Wrt to the schedule of costs, is this something I can include within it? 

 

You dont attach a schedule of costs to a WS...you cant claim costs anyway in Small Claims Track.

 

Andy

[Dave962]

Thanks Andy.

 

My case is on the 23rd, so will it need posting off today?

 

ive still not received Simons copy.

 

I’m going to work at 10 so to be honest my WS going to need sending off this morning?

 

or would I be able to do it tomorrow, special delivery? Do they allow a grace period?

 

is someone can let me know please ASAP? Thanks you.

[dx100uk]

i will try and read through today..

if your hearing is the 23rd then ideally yours should be at least with the court tomorrow

don't worry if you are a days or 2 late as i said before use your LiP status to your advantage.

 

i just hope you never gave anyone an email AD as simon will pull a fast one and email you at 1 min to midnight of the day its due.

full of lies that you cannot counter in your WS.

 

 

[Dave962]

Thanks DX

 

Just posted the court one, first class.

 

I forgot to highlight the missing sign on the signage map aarrggghhhh!!

 

Just off to work now, I'll get Simons sent off tomorrow.

 

No deffo not given any emails out to Simon, only the one to the court

[Dave962]

Just thinking about the signage map I forgot to highlight, is it worth emailing the corrected map over to the court tomorrow? Is that something that can easily be done, or is that more of a risk of making it more messy?

[AndyOrch]

Yes.....ring your county court first and explain and ask if it could be placed in the file......have you referred to this document in your statement ?

[Dave962]

Brilliant thanks Andy.

 

yeah should be a dead easy quick fix. I think for example it was Annex 10. And I’ve divided all the annexes so should only take a second to swap round, as long as it’s not too much hassle for someone.

 

It was textbook this morning, everything that could go wrong with the printer, did go wrong. The paper jammed, the ink ran out and I ran out of paper...hence this daft oversight.

[Dave962]

Thanks Andy

 

Just rang them so I'll send the corrected version over today.

 

Also, I'm just wondering, I included a letter within the bundle yesterday from the BPA alluding to the fact VCS were not members as per the incorrectly marked sign. I just wanted to check this kind of thing is allowed? 

 

This was my WS...

Witness Statement 2nd Draft copy.pdf

[AndyOrch]

Bundle evidence ...standard disclosure is any letter...document.... referred to in either your initial defence or witness statement....if you have not referred to it and marked it as an exhibit within the statement.....then its very unlikely to be allowed.

[Dave962]

Thanks Andy. I’ve re jigged it and removed all address’ and emails names etc, and just left the main body of text. I thought this would be safest.

 

it is in an Exhibit on its own and can easily be found.