VCS/BW PCN PAPLOC Now Claimform - no permit - Woodside Business Park, Peel Investments, Birkenhead

[Dave962]

Hi

 

I've received the usual letter off BW Legal now asking me to pay £154.

 

Obviously Im though to pay it as I feel there are mitigating circumstances to my case,

however at the same time I don't want my fees to keep rising and rising!

 

I parked at my usual place of work car park without a permit

- I was in a new car after I left my permit in my old car, which was at a car garage far away.

 

I did get in touch with them asking them to send it but it never arrived in time.

It happened during the early hours when the car park was empty.

 

I have full documented evidence and proof of my circumstances,

but after I appealed to the IAS, my case was unsuccessful

- however I still feel hard done by.

 

Please can you help guide me in my next actions,

as I don't want to risk paying more money than I already owe,

but at the same time, feel like these cretins are just abusing their powers of enforcement.

 

Thanks

[dx100uk]

please fill this out?

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?462118-Have-you-received-a-Parking-Ticket-(1-Viewing)-nbsp

[ericsbrother]

the permit is an administrative convenience to prove you have the right to park there.

the parking co cannot take that right away but think if they threaten you with dire consequences of not paying

then you will pay up.

You owe nothing.

 

as for the IAs, their decision has encouraged the parking co to think they are in the right

so a brief denial to BW that their client has any right to claim any right to make a contract

and therefore as it doesn't exist there can be no breach of the said contract

and that any action will be vigorously defended as being vexatious.

[Dave962]

Hi Eric

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

However, as you can imagine it is still a bit worrying...how likely is it then that if I ignore it, it will continue to court.

 

Also, just to clear up, again if it does go to court, as the wording on the signage reads "may be liable for charges", does that mean even in the worst case of losing at court, i will only be instructed to pay a max of £100? And any further charges such as the £54 from BW will be written off?

 

Unfortunately, acting on the advice of the CAB, I contacted BW today, and they advised me if it went all the way, I would be expected to pay in the region of £280 in total if I lost, how likely is this??

 

Actually it states in their letter, "In the event of CC proceedings are issued you WILL be liable for court fees, further solicitor costs and statutory interest", so this implies my costs will keep rising!!

 

I'm mega confused

 

Thanks again

Edited May 18, 2016 by Dave962

[dx100uk]

cab want shooting - you should never ring these people.

 

you seriously need to read a few threads here dave

you've only read ONE THREAD

like yours

 

can you please fill in the link in post 2

[Dave962]

Ha thanks dx I know they never had a clue when they were talking to me really.

 

I can see all the questions, but who do I send it to? None of the other links on the page or attachments open for me.

 

Thanks

[dx100uk]

hi dave

simply click this link

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?462118-Have-you-received-a-Parking-Ticket-(1-Viewing)-nbsp

 

 

copy the text of the post

copy back here

paste it to a new msg box

then before posting the msg

answer each question please

[Dave962]

Sorry apologies for my misunderstanding.

 

Ok I will do, but I need to go to bed now as I'm up in a few hours for work. Ill have a good look at your questions and have a close look at the small print on my PCN form, and get back to you asap tomorrow.

 

Many thanks, I really appreciate your help.

[dx100uk]

ta

[Dave962]

HI Dx

 

Please find my response in Caps. Please let me know if you require anything else...

 

Firstly, please check whether this is a PENALTY charge or a parking chargeicon. If this is a PENALTY charge, please see below.

THIS IS A PARKING CHARGE DOES THIS STILL APPLY?

For windscreen tickets (NTD) please answer the following questions.

 

 

1 The date of infringement? 22nd NOV 15

 

2 Did you appeal to the parking company? YES

 

If yes, has there been any response?

YES, UNSUCCESSFUL. I FOLLOWED THIS UP BY APPEALING WITH IAS WHICH WHO WERE ALSO UNHELPFUL.

NOW THEY, OR BW ARE THREATENING ME WITH COURT ACTION.

If no, have you received a Notice To Keeper? (NTK) Did the NTK provide photographic evidence?

 

3 Did the NTK mention Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA)

NO MENTION OF THIS ANYWHERE, BUT NOT SURE I EVER RECEIVED A NTK

 

4 If you appealed after receiving the NTK, did the parking company give you any information regarding the further appeals process?

[it is well known that parking companies will reject any appeal whatever the circumstances]

NEVER RECEIVED A NTK, HOWEVER THEY WERE CLEAR IN HOW I COULD APPEAL

 

5 Who is the parking company? VCS

 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event?

YES THEY HAVE TAKEN PICTURES

[dx100uk]

https://cse.google.co.uk/cse?cx=partner-pub-0964707606882478:652l7hswbgv&ie=UTF-8&q=VCS+BW&sa=Search+CAG#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=VCS%20BW&gsc.page=1

[ericsbrother]

To try and answer your questions in a logical way,

 

how likely is it you will be taken to court?

More likely now you have spoken to BW and showed that you are a target.

 

How likely are they to get £280?

almost zero for a defended claim as they cannot justify any of the extra costs other than court fees,

which are £35 o a total of £135 and maybe £50 for the lawyers to turn up on the day so £185 tops.

 

How likely are they to win?

If you offer a proper defence then the answer to that is almost zero

as they havent followed the correct procedures and the signage is so rubbish it cannot constitute a contract.

 

Sorry to say but as you have made a stupid mistake on your contacts with them

the best thing to do is say nothing and do nothing.

 

 

Having an arrangement with your employer gives you what is called supremacy of contract

so even though the signage is rubbish it doesnt apply to you as you are above all of that.

 

 

There are loads of other bits to add to your defence should the need arise but for the moment do and say nothing.

 

 

You may get a lba or you may get a N1 from VCS but there are no certainties to either,

it depends on how stupid VCS are and what advice they take from BW on how gullible they think you are

and what money they want to possibly throw away when they lose (as they will).

 

If you do get an N1 we will advise how to defend,

there are agin procedures to be followed by both sides

but you can make it very difficult for them to provide the proof they have any rights to be at court

and often they pull out at the next stage just to cut their losses.

[Dave962]

Hi DX and Erics Brother et all

 

Many thanks for all your replies with my previous correspondence.

As you can imagine, the threat level has now raised to 'Final Notice' level.

 

If I don't pay the £154 by 18th June, CC proceedings will begin against me.

 

After my earlier lackadaisical approach, I have done everything you have asked of me since I got in touch with you,

and if you are able to assist me further, I would be enormously grateful for your support.

 

However,

do you require any further information on my case,

would you like me to send copies of my report to you in any way?

 

 

I feel since I wrote my initial report,

I might be able to bolster it in an extra way,

but I am also conscious that if I don't have a leg to stand on,

 

 

I might be better off coughing up now

- although this is not my intention as I feel like I was treated completely unfairly in this case.

 

Thanks and best regards

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

Are you able to scan up this notice as a pdf, minus any identifying details please? That would help us to advise you.

 

Does the letter say that CC proceedings 'will' begin or 'may'? These letters are designed to sound scary for the uninitiated.

 

HB

[dx100uk]

don't worry

these BW claims IF you get issued one

are going out like confetti.

no-one has lost to them yet here if things are done correctly by you

 

 

dx

[ericsbrother]

where in the advice given does it suggest you dont have a leg to stand on?

Now, if this is a new letter tell us EXACTLY what it says, not your interpretation of it

as the wording is key to what to do next.

Post up the letter if possible without your personal details.

 

We are also still waiting to see the signage so we can comment on their content and likewise any of the NTK's or other letters you have received and the date you actually got them.

 

this is all about procedure, they have to follow a strict timescale and use of words and they often get this wrong.

When they do it means they cant claim (unless some twonk at the CAB advises you to give up your rights)

but in your case we believe that you have supremacy of contract

and if it comes to it that is the first thing to say in your defence.

 

However,

if this latest letter is a lba then we suggest that you do reply to create a paper trail

that will show that any court action is vex and you can them claim extra costs from them.

Edited June 13, 2016 by honeybee13
Paras.

[Dave962]

Hi everyone, thanks for all your replies

 

I've tried to attach a photo of the letter, hope it works...

 

BW letter 2.pdf

[dx100uk]

willy waving

[Dave962]

Here are some snaps I took at the car park overnight.

 

As you can see, they are before and after shots, with camera flash on, and off.

 

As you say, IAS said this was not a case of defence due to the fact I was a regular user of the car park, or words to that affect.

 

However the irony is lost on them

- totally ignoring the fact that because I am a regular user of the car park,

I am therefore a bona fide user and not a one off chancer taking advantage of it.

 

 

This was a one off honest mistake over off peak hours when the car park was completely empty

- the whole justice system regarding this case stinks

and I just get the impression the law (certainly IAS) is firmly now taking the side of these parasites.

 

 

 

 

 

[dx100uk]

might be better to do them in daylight....

and pop them all into a word doc

and attach that as a PDF

[ericsbrother]

well, the latest letter is just scare tactics and not worthy of a response

 

dig out the original demands and get a decent picture of the sign so we can formulate

something as a response when they write again.

 

From what I can read of the signs it isnt an offer of a contract

but need to see the small print (that in itself is a problem for them).

 

Also, where are the signs in relation to the entrance to the land/car park and how big are they?

 

lastly, who are Peel holdings Ltd

[Dave962]

Thanks DX will do.

 

 

Although Im not back in work for another week so doubt I'll be able to get snaps of them in daylight unless its urgent.

 

However, in the meantime, I have attached the two pdf's VCS used when handling my case.

 

Although not the exact spot were my car was parked, I think they give you a good idea of what they are all about.

 

Also, for your info, I had the pleasure of a call off BW earlier today.

I missed it, however they left a message on my answer phone.

This is the first time I've had a call off them.

 

If they call again, shall I ignore, or is it better I answer and state my intentions to them?

 

Thanks

pics .pdf

sign.pdf

[dx100uk]

you totally ignore bw

dx

[Dave962]

Thanks DX, will do

 

The weirdo stalkers

[ericsbrother]

Ideally,

if you can see who is calling to press the button to accept the call and place the handset next to your radio without saying a word to them.

They will soon get fed up of wasting their money.

 

I also sincerely hope the sign is the same as VCS are not members of the BPA so the sign isnt valid.

 

 

Might be worth a complaint to the DVLA copied to BPA if they want to continue regarding abouse of KADOE when they dont comply to the requirements of its access terms.

 

Also it looks like Peel Holdings ltd arent the landowner but a subsidiary of a management co based on the IOM.

 

 

They do own some properties so it is a possibility that there could be a valid contract between VCS and landowner but most likely isnt and that means they cant legally claim a penny via the courts (wont stop them trying though, they like to tell lies about this and sometimes judges dont know that they are being misled)