SIP Windscreen PCN - outside lines - Harding Street, Salford

[BARAWEEZ]

Hi

 

Yesterday a group of us visited Manchester and parked at private parking, which later learned was Harding Street, owned by SIP.

 

we paid for 12hrs plus parking as wanted to make sure I covered the cost of stay

- but on return found a Parking Charge Notice (PCN)

- Reason = "Not in Marked Bay'. 

We were far from happy as to be honest didn't even notice a marked bay as the lighting was far from good compared to other well known carparks.

 

This is old railway arches converted into indoor parking, so if you can imagine going in from bright conditions to dingy conditions and guess it took some time for eyesight to adjust.

 

I hope someone can help with an independent view of whether the attached represents clear adequate bay marking

- I'm not so sure and thought that the owners should take responsibility to keep bays adequately clearly marked.

Views most welcome.  

[dx100uk]

please complete this:

and pop you picture up as pdf so we can zoom it please

read upload

 

dx

[ericsbrother]

so they slapped a ticket on the car?

well you WAIT until they issue a NTK and that has to arrive 29-56 days after the date of the event.

 

In the meanwhile we need to see the signs at the ENTRANCE to the land from the public highway

(and the entrance anyway if there are no signs)

and the signs that are around the site

plus any blurb on the payment meter that is different to the exact wording of the other signs

[zydeco]

This might be of interest. 

https://confidentials.com/manchester/the-manchester-car-park-disgrace-with-expensive-ramifications-for-the-city

[ericsbrother]

now planning permission for the car park is separate for the PP for the cameras and signage and under contract law SIP can run a car park without the landlord having planning permission but they then run into trouble when they try and enforce  a contract like this one because they cant perform to contract.

 

Now in this case they dont need any permissions for running a car aprk, the landlord does but that means SIP cant offer a binding contract if you decide not to accept it and that means they cant sue and win.

 

The example usually given for performance of contract is that I can sell you London Bridge even though I dont own it, it is only when you pay me and ask for the deeds that i come unstuck

 

you can sue me for failing to keep to my end of the bargain and that can be for more than the money I took from you.

 

Why isnt this just plain old theft or fraud?

Well, on the stock exchange many people make money by buying and selling futures or short selling without ever owning the goods or shares they are using for the contract

 

. It all works well until someone is left with a dud or cant supply the actual goods or shares and they either lose a shed load of money or they have to find someone to sell them the stuff at any price.

 

 wait until they write to you and then we will compose a suitable letter telling them where to get off

[BARAWEEZ]

Thanks dx100uk - response to relevant questions provided below. I will provide photos of signage at entrance and further photos of marked bays at same location in separate response.

 

For a windscreen ticket (Notice To Driver) please answer the following questions....  I received a Parking Charge Notice (SIP)

 

1 The date of infringement? 11/05/2019 @ 16:01

 

2 Have you yet appealed to the parking company yet? No

 

if you have then please post up whatever you sent and how you sent it and the date you sent it,

suitably redacted. [as a PDF- follow the upload guide  N/A

 

has there been a response? N/A

please post it up as well, suitably redacted. [as a PDF- follow the upload guide]

 

If you haven't appealed yet - ,.........

 

have you received a Notice To Keeper? (NTK) [must be received by you between 29-56 days] Not yet as only 12 days since alleged infringement

what date is on it

Did the NTK provide photographic evidence? N/A yet

 

3 Did the NTK mention Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) [Y/N? ]N/A yet

 

4 If you appealed after receiving the NTK,

did the parking company give you any information regarding the further appeals process? N/A yet

[it is well known that parking companies will reject any appeal whatever the circumstances]

 

5 Who is the parking company? Simple Intelligent Parking (SIP)

 

6. where exactly [Carpark name and town] did you park? Harding Street, Manchester

[BARAWEEZ]

ericsbrother - thanks for response. Please see photos as requested + more

 

pix.pdf

[dx100uk]

there is nothing for you to do now bar READ up on like topics here now BW

you need to await the NTK as already advised

andy doesn't need to do anything.

unless you still need anymore advice than above upon whats next.

[BARAWEEZ]

[ericsbrother]

Now their signage is generic so it begs the question does this car park consist entirely of marked bays and if so how does one distinguish what are the defined markings?

 

Their signage offers nothing to help you determine even if the marked bays additional terms apply to this car park and you would have thought that they would want people to be aware of what they are being offered because if they arent it isnt a contractual obligation.

 

My view on this is that they are trying to chisel motorists for money as they dont earn enough from the acrual parking management and like all of these companies greed overrides their obligations in their activities.

 

Now this means they will be like a dog with a bone and wont want to let go so expect to fight this all of the way.

 

As you have an advantange of gathering some information before they send the NTK you are in a better position than many

 

when you do get the letter please show us it with your personal details redacted as they will have to show what evidence they have of this alleged breach in that NTK.

 

Some compnies refer youto a web site to view their evidence

- not good enough, the POFA says they have to show it in the letter.

 

Also the wording of the NTK has to contain key phrases to create a liability and often they get that wrong so keep sitting on your hands until they send the letter.

[BARAWEEZ]

Hi dx100uk.  I've now received the NTK - see attached.  Are you able to advise next steps please?

 

[dx100uk]

had to take those down 

you've not redacted any pers info!!

 

you must redact them!

read upload carefully!!

 

when done

pop them up in one multipage PDF please

also try and get them the right way up eh?

 

dx

 

[BARAWEEZ]

Hi dx - apologies I really am a novice!  Hopefully the attached is better. Please let me know if you need anything else.

NTK3.pdf

[ericsbrother]

well we know they dont have planning consent for the car park and SIP doesnt have planning consent for its signs so in case of the former they have problems with performace of their contract  and with the latter they cant form a contract with you because they are breaking the law so yu cant enetr into a criminal compact with them.

this also menas you can sue them for obtaining your keeper details under a false declaration.

So what to do?

well, you can write to them and tell them they are a bunch of lying cheating criminals but they know that already so will ignore you other than to continue to demand money or you can ignore them for a while and force them to spend money chasing you with no chance of success.

I would suggest the latter and when they have finished wasting money on idiot dca's and threaten court action you respond in a forthright manner to let them knwo you arent scared of their threats and look forward to taking money from them.

[BARAWEEZ]

Hi ericsbrother - how do you know that they don't have planning permission or consent for signs?

 

dx100uk - do you have any further advice?

 

[renegadeimp]

2 minutes ago, BARAWEEZ said:

Hi ericsbrother - how do you know that they don't have planning permission or consent for signs?

 

dx100uk - do you have any further advice?

 

Simple. You can check with your local council. Most have a free online search tool.

You also need to read other threads as well. Your issue is no different to thousands of others.

Edited July 16, 2019 by renegadeimp

[ericsbrother]

I know they dont have PP because I looked that theonline news article about them.

You need to be proactive on this and use any source you can to help you.