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    • Thanks DX.  I've ploughed through the pages and dug out what I feel are the relevant ones. Obviously, some of these are duplicates of what I've put up before.  Anyway, I would be hugely grateful if someone can look over and advise. Reading though other posts and on other cases that I've had help with from here, I don't think they have much of a case - given the weakness of much of their "evidence" - but obviously I would be grateful for some expert advice from the helpful souls on here.    Thank you.    B   Witness Oct19_redacted.pdf
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n3014

TFL Fare Evasion for 5 months (16+ Oyster)

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Hello all.

 

Today I received a letter from TFL after I was caught using my brothers 16+ oyster card in March 2019.

It does not state the offence I have committed but states that the facts are being considered and legal proceedings may be taken against me in accordance with the TFL prosecution policy.

 

The letter provides me with two options stating that I can choose whether to deny committing the offence or accept committing the offence (but must provide exceptional reasons for TFL to not decide in proceeding with a prosecution). 

 

This was a massive error of judgement on my behalf and I deeply regret my actions.

 

To provide some background as to why I used the oyster card, I am the sole income earner for my family and I am required to support my mother (who  is not physically capable to work).

 

As such, I have to make a large contribution in rental costs and living costs for myself, my mother and my three younger brothers (of whom none are at working age).

 

I started my first job after university five months ago and I stupidly decided to purchase a travel card under my younger brother's 16+ oyster card (which is half price compared to the adult rate). In total, I  have calculated the fares evaded to be roughly £600 over a five month period. 

 

I understand that this does not excuse my actions and I should not have attempted to fare evade under any circumstances.

I also appreciate the fact that fare evading over a period of 5 months is a matter that will be taken seriously and I think it is better for me to be honest in the letter.

 

If TFL decide to take this matter to court, a criminal conviction would have a severe impact on my career prospects as I am seeking to gain entry into the legal profession in a couple of years (having already completed two law degrees). As such, a criminal conviction would have a disastrous effect on my future prospects and I hope to settle this matter out of court. 

 

What approach should I take in the first letter to TFL?

 

Is the best approach to admit what I have done, explain my mitigating circumstances and offer to compensate TFL for the fares evaded and offer to pay admin costs on top?

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The best approach is to be completely straight dealing. Completely penitent. Make clear you are very straitened circumstances and your responsibilities.

It may be an idea not to tell them that you are entering the legal profession. You should certainly propose to repay the money and also asked them what additional penalty they require you to pay because you will be prepared to pay immediately and without any question.


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oif yu can wait until they actually say what it is they are minded to do the  you can cut your cloth accordingly.

 

They will be able to match CCTV with the card use but that will take them a long time and ultimately end up with a charge that would only be the same as if you had used it just the once as they arent going to try and persuade a court t will require 300 hearings to deal with this matter.

 

admit what is true  and then offer the mitigation and ask if they wil consider this and your remorse to settle the matter by way of making good their losses and investigation costs.

 

It will save them a lot of bother and if they are not worried about setting an example or conversely if they are happy in getting their money they may agree and treat the whole thing as being a single event.

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Plenty of like topics here on what to do and write in mitigation

use our custom google  search box

 

16+ oyster card


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Good afternoon guys.

 

Just to provide you with an update, they are taking me to court under the TFL byelaws. I have drafted a second (esentially) grovelling letter, can you please advise on whether it reads well and on any parts I should take out? 

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for one use but the others are TIC?


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They are charging me for one use essentially i.e. being in a compulsory ticket area without a ticket. What do you mean by TIC?

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How much (practical, not just academic) criminal law did your two law degrees cover?

 

In this context, TIC : “taken into consideration”.

 

If they ask about the others and you admit them and ask for them to be taken into consideration, then they can’t come after you for them later, they will be disposed of at the time the specimen charge is heard.

 

If they don’t ask about them and you offer them, they might offer to have them TIC, or it might persuade them not to offer an administrative settlement. There is a theoretical downside to not coughing to them, though.

 

If TfL prosecute you for one offence and don’t ask about any TIC, then you only get prosecuted for that one. There is then the theoretical risk they could come after you (within 6 months of the offence) for any other offences committed, if they discover them. If they are TIC you are protected from this.

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Thank you for clearing that up BazzaS.

 

I am under the assumption that the other offences are TIC given the fact that I admitted the period of use (5 months) in my first letter which gave my explanation of events. In response to my first letter, they decided to prosecute me for the single offence (under the byelaws). 

 

I will call them to double check on this though. 

 

 

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no don't call them.

you say they DONT mention at all the other times of usage?

usually it will say byelaw bla bla 

and in the statement say and XXX other times counted to [no.] being TIC if you plead guity and attend

which you MUST do


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Surprisingly they don't mention AT ALL the other times of usage. 

 

It says tfl byelaws bla bla.. Then the last paragraph is "An application will be made in court for a *** contribution towards the costs of TFL. There will also be an application of *** in respect of the fare avoided. Further costs may be incurred if additional docs are required or the matter is not resolved at the earliest opportunity". 

 

The last sentence is interesting. Leaving it open to an OOC on the day? 

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You can always ask for an OOC on the day, but don’t expect it.

 

my reading of the last sentence is that if you plead not guilty with them expecting a guilty plea, and the case is then adjourned for them to have the staff member attend to give evidence that they’d seek the extra costs involved.

 

re: the TIC. Is the *** in respect of the fare the single fare or to cover TIC journeys? That will clarify if there are any TIC !

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Posted (edited)

Bazza I am under the assumption that the the application in court for *** covers the TIC and the *** covers the single journey i.e. when I was caught. 

 

What do you think? Why else would they separate it? It must be including TIC. 

Edited by n3014

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it cant hurt you to scan it up to pdf

read upload

 


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WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

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I think it would help us if you tell us what the figures are please. Other people have for years and it's never affected their cases. Without numbers we're going to be guessing.

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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For your information, the "no other option" is an error from the inspector. He has phrased it in a way as if I do not give a **** and I will contest that part in court. 

 

 

IMG_20190616_185341.jpg

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Impossible to tell if you are being secret squirrel about the figures, but they are entitled to seek both:

the cost of fare(s) evaded, and

the cost(s) of bringing the prosecution.

 

I can’t tell from *** if that is the single fare ....

you’ve now posted.

The £225 is current prosecution costs.

The £6.40 is that one fare.

 

There is nothing in that £6.40 fare being sought to suggest they are taking any others into consideration. They COULD come after you for the other occasions. If they know about them, and if they WOULD are a different situation, though!.

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I have already informed them of the other occasions, which would surely also be on their records given I was making repeat journeys to and from work. 

 

So as things stand they are taking me to court over £6.40. I have already sent them a second (predominantly grovelling) letter to settle this out of court for the sum of £500.

 

Given the requisition I don't think they will accept but I thought it was worth a shot. 

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you should never state a sum...who told you that?

 

unlike other like letters it has everything bar the other uses

so they obv have no evidence of them other than your admittance else I can assure you they would state so.

[see the other threads here with scans in of TfL court summons.]

 

look like you are home and dry then.


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

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I just thought that they would be tempted by the figure, especially considering the fact that they do not have evidence of the other uses (as you have said). 

 

It depends on whether they want to make an example out of me. Regardless of the outcome, I've learnt my lesson. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, n3014 said:

 

 

So as things stand they are taking me to court over £6.40. I have already sent them a second (predominantly grovelling) letter to settle this out of court for the sum of £500.

 

No.

They are taking you to court for failing to show a valid ticket, on demand.

 

They know you were fare dodging.

They PROBABLY could get you for intending to evade your fare, and likely for multiple occasions, but they’d have to do prove intent to do that.

By going for the strict liability offence they get an (almost) certain conviction.

 

”They are taking me to court over £4.60” doesn’t show any sign of contrition, and doesn’t match with what you, yourself, have admitted....

 

If they get the merest whiff of you not understanding the severity, not having really learnt your lesson and not being likely to re-offend, and thinking “they are taking me to court for £4.60”, what basis are you giving them to not prosecute?

 

You really don’t want to be giving the impression that the only thing you are sorry about is being caught, rather than sorry you were fare dodging!

Edited by BazzaS

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I probably phrased that wrong.

Believe me I am contrite. J

ust annoyed with myself for thinking I could get away with it. 

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It has been a while since my last post. I would like to wholeheartedly state that I am extremely grateful to everyone for your feedback on my case. I understand that you are taking time out of your busy lives to advise not only myself but also others who have attempted to circumvent the law. The feedback you provide is commendable and a testament to each of you and once again thank you for doing so. 

 

Just to provide an update, TFL are taking me to court and I will have to solemnly deal with the consequence of my actions. 

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Don't forget to plead with the prosecutor on the day, there's always hope.

Going on your knees and cry with large tears could be enough to convince them to charge you for fare evaded and admin costs.

You never know...

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Do you have the name of the person at TfL handling your case? If so, you can continue to write and ask for an out of court settlement as well as doing what king12345 suggests on the day. A few people have said recently that they don't have a phone number for the person they would like to contact, maybe you do?

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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