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May I request some guidance from experienced members for a Single Justice Notice I received from TFL for below charges :

Regulation 7(1)(b) of Public Servce Vehicle Regulation 1990 SI No 1020

and

Section 25(3) Public Passenger Vehicle Act 1981

 

Can someone please shed some light whether these are recordable offence or not ?

Spent in how long ?

 

Do I need a solicitor to represent to contest or shall i just sign guilty plea ?

What are implications in both options.

Please help guide.

Thanks

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Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

Can you tell us a bit more about what happened please?

 

Best, HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Thanks Honeybee,

This unfortunate incident happened on a local bus.

 

To cut long story short I just want to know what these 2 regulations actually mean in terms of its effect on my life if I sign guilty plea in terms of time it takes to be "Spent" and whether these offences are recordable under the statute they have charged ?

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Dear DX100, May i request your kind guidance if you are still online and have few minutes. I am having chest pain due to stress. and unable to find anyone who can guide about this section 25(3) whether it is recordable offence and how much to time for it to be spent ?

 

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did you not receive a letter giving you 10 days to give your side of the story.??

dont panic about this

its really a very simple matter

no need atall to to get stressed out.

 

 


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Yes,

I received 10 day letter

in my reply i accepted my mistake and with apologised profusely for error in judgement

 

in my mitigation I mentioned that I was unwell and under multiple medications including sedatives so could not make the right judgement.

It is my first offence.

 

my question is that whether I have any chance in court ?

Or shall I just sign guilty plea and send by post ?

 

Is this section 25(3) recordable offence ?

 

And how long it takes to be considered as "Spent" ?

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you must always plead guilty and appear pers in court to convey your remorse directly to the magistrate.

there is also the availability to settle with the TfL prosecutor before you enter court.

 

when did you received the initial letter

when did you reply

what did you exactly reply with

 


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These look like the regulations they're talking about. Have they quoted them in their letter or summons?

 

7.—(1) No passenger on a vehicle being used for the carriage of passengers at separate fares shall use any ticket which has–

(a)been altered or defaced;

(b)been issued for use by another person on terms that it is not transferable; or

(c)expired.

 

25 (3) Subject to section 68(1) of this Act, if a person contravenes, or fails to comply with, a provision of regulations having effect by virtue of this section, he shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding [F3level 3 on the standard scale].

 


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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My query is still same, whether Section 25(3) cited in their "Single Justice Procedure Notice" is recordable offence ? and how long it takes to be "Spent" ? I cant this info on net so please guide me.

 

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I haven't found it online yet either.

 

We don't normally advise on such a short story. Is there any chance you could tell us what's happened please instead of repeating the questions.

 

We do have transport experts, mainly with trains, but I'll PM a couple of them and ask if they're able to help.

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Buses aren’t my forte I’m afraid, however since it’s a Single Justice Procedure, it would suggest these regulations are on a par with Byelaws, and thus non-recordable. 

 

the Single Justice Procedure notice isn’t the offence, just to clarify. That’s what is used these days to prosecute more minor offences in order to bring a matter to court without having a prosecutor attend etc. 

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Dear Stigy,

Is there any way to confirm or double check from other members what you stated about being non-recordable ? 

 

I am totally confused because CAB told me it takes 6 years to be spent. A solicitor said 2 year and another said 4 years.

Thanks for helping out.

 

 

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8 hours ago, Stigy said:

Buses aren’t my forte I’m afraid, however since it’s a Single Justice Procedure, it would suggest these regulations are on a par with Byelaws, and thus non-recordable. 

 

the Single Justice Procedure notice isn’t the offence, just to clarify. That’s what is used these days to prosecute more minor offences in order to bring a matter to court without having a prosecutor attend etc. 

 

Thank you for answering, Stigy.

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Please tell us what you have done wrong.

Was this a bus

What did you do wrong

Tell us the full story

 

you dont need cab nor a solicitors help

 

Dx

 


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“Recordable offence” or showing on a DBS check?

 

if a DBS, a Basic check or enhanced (eDBS)?

if a DBS and not a eDBS (where offences are never considered ‘spent’), will you be aged under 18 when the matter is heard by a Single Justice?

 

 

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10 hours ago, Stigy said:

 

 

the Single Justice Procedure notice isn’t the offence, just to clarify. That’s what is used these days to prosecute more minor offences in order to bring a matter to court without having a prosecutor attend etc. 

 

The matter gets heard under Single Justice Procedure when the offence is admitted, is minor, and is suitable to be disposed of by a Justice of the Peace (Magistrate) dealing with the case on the papers only: no need for a court attendance.

 

whilst the advice is often “attend court to express your apology in person”, for a SJP it is worth apologising, and saying something along the lines of “were this matter to be heard in person I would be attending to express my apology & remorse. I hope the court can accept my apology without me attending in person if the court’s time can be saved by this matter being dealt with under the Single Justice Procedure

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Always worth asking TfL if they will consider an alternative to prosecution.

 

By the time a SJP notice has been received it may be too late (we need the whole story, and if TfL have already been asked about an administrative settlement!), but there is no harm in asking / asking again.

 

asking a solicitor to contest it (rather than ‘just a solicitor writing on your behalf’)

means it’ll go to a court hearing not just SJP, and you’ll have to have a reason why you won’t be found guilty : lack of intent on its own won’t suffice.

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In order to answer query from dx100, yes it was on bus as i used a family member's card that had a weekly travel card on it.

 

Bazzaz's query : I thought Recordable offences are the same as the ones that show in DBS. I am not worried about enhanced DBS. My main concern is whether 25(3) offence is recordable and how before it is spent ?

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ok .thankyou

the truth now..

 

was this deliberate

a mistake

and for how many journeys ?

 

theres no need to hide details fromn us here.


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Folks,

any idea how long it takes to get decision after submitting guilty plea in Single Justice Procedure vs if mitigation is argued in traditional court ?

 

Does it take long to get court date in traditional court ?

I want this matter to get it over with so i can focus on my work.

 

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pleading not guilty and going to a hearing can take months to be allocated

how many times did you use the card, just the once?

 

 


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On 03/05/2019 at 23:43, Sky B said:

In order to answer query from dx100, yes it was on bus as i used a family member's card that had a weekly travel card on it.

 

Bazzaz's query : I thought Recordable offences are the same as the ones that show in DBS. I am not worried about enhanced DBS. My main concern is whether 25(3) offence is recordable and how before it is spent ?

 

A recordable offence is one that is recorded on the Police National Computer (PNC). Those offences listed on DBS checks tend to be recordable offences, as the DBS generally use the PNC when checking an applicant's history. There have been occasions however whereby non-recordable convictions have shown up on DBS checks, presumably from court records?

 

I would say that unless this is an offence of dishonesty, it's unlikely to be recordable, as most offences relating to travel are non-recordable.

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Non-recordable offences:  can show on an eDBS, from “locally held records” (so, not on the PNC), as “other information, at Chief Officer’s discretion”.

They won’t show on a Basic Check, nor a Standard disclosure (Scotland), as these use the PNC records only.

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Thanks Bazzas & Stigy.

 

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