PESS Windscreen PCN - no permit - residential estate - Parkwest, West Drayton UB7

[balixonline]

Hello folks, 

Posting this on behalf of my elderly neighbour.

I am copy and pasting the appeal here which should explain the situation.

My neighbour is concerned and worried that she doesn't have driver details and if the company were to write the driver, the driver may pay up the money which she doesn't want to happen. 

 

What option does she have at present do you think?

 

PCS's response yesterday: 

Thank you for your email regarding the above Parking Charge Notice (PCN).

Unfortunately we are unable to process appeals that have been made by a third party. The driver will need to contact us directly if they wish to appeal their PCN.

 

Kind Regards

PCS signature with contact details etc.

From: My neighbour
To: [email protected];
Subject: Appeal re: XXXXXXXX
 

Hi,

 

I am partially sighted and has a physical disability. 

On 20 April 2019 my son dropped me to a family friend on his way to work.

Whilst at my friend's house, I started to feel unwell, another guest visiting my friend kindly volunteered to bring me home quickly so I could access medication and rest.

 

The guest drove me home and helped me inside the flat.

I can confirm that it didn't take them more than a few minutes but by the time they went back to the car, your parking attendant had put a ticket on it already.

 

They spoke to the attendant to say that they were only away for barely a few minutes but parking attendant said I don't have access to cancel the ticket.

 

The guest then returned to my flat and I assured them that I will ask my son to speak with security to have it cancelled.

The next day my son spoke to security but was told they don't have access to system either and it has to be written to you to be cancelled. 

 

I would appreciate if you can please cancel the parking charge and confirm to me via email that you have. ticket details are as follows;

 

PCN Date: 20/04/2019

PCN Number: XXXXXXX

VRM: XXXX XXX

Vehicle Make/Model: Toyota

Name: Neighbour

Address: her address

Contact Number: contact number

 

Unfortunately, I do not have driver details as they were guests attending an event at my friend's house.

 

I'd appreciate if you can send me any further communications to my email address.

 

Regards,

[FTMDave]

Well unfortunately the fleecers will be able to get the details of the keeper of the car from the DVLA, who will in due course receive a NTK.

 

If possible, it would be good to track this person down, let them know what is likely to happen, and encourage them to come on here to fight the charge.

 

Depending on exact details there are probably loads of different ways to make sure this person doesn't have to cough up

   - prohibition

   - supremacy of contract

   - grace period.

 

Have a read of other threads to get an idea of how to fight these conmen, and get the keeper of the vehicle to start a thread here if you can trace him/her. 

[ericsbrother]

being sharks they will now use their sense of smell to go after their bleeding prey and despite them saying they cant accept third party appeals ( yes they can but they choose not to in this case because like every other appeal they dont want to give up on a free meal)

 

so a bit more clarity.

was this a ticket slapped on the windscreen of a car or was it a letter through the post using ANPR to capture the reg of the car?

Who is the keeper of the vehicle?

the person you are helping or the driver at the time?

 

Keeper liability can be created if they use the correct wording of a letter that is sent i the prescrivbed time.

 

If neighbour is keeper then the parking co will never know who the driver was unless they name them

in this instance writing to the parking co hasnt done any damage

but DO NOT contact them again until we have seen everything relevant to this

 

that will include the signage at the land where the event took place and other more personal information if it was a residential parking area

[balixonline]

As far as I understand the ticket was left on the windscreen of the car and the keeper of the vehicle is the person who drove the lady to her apartment from the neighbouring town. 

 

I will check with my neighbour as she got in touch with her friend to find details of the other guests/driver.

She was quite embarrassed about it so was reluctant earlier but I explained that this is the only way she'd be able to help them.

 

She was wondering if she could get them to authorise her to act on their behalf or in other words me as I will help with your (CAG) help of course.

[ericsbrother]

we can do everything up to the point of a court hearing.

Knowing the location fo the event will even allow us to suggest how that may be attended by a lay rep at little or no expense.

The person who will get the NTK will be the keeper so you need to speak to that person and get the letter when it arrives and post it up here.

so we need to know WHERE and WHEN the ticket was slapped on the car so we can do a bit of digging

[balixonline]

I have the ticket scanned with me, it doesn't have any personal details and only car details. am I good to attach here?

[ericsbrother]

redact the reg number and any ticket number or barcode.

being able to see what they are claiming on the ticket is always useful as it must match the supposed breach or condition and often they are claiming for a breach of a contractual term that does not exist, hence needing to see the signage.

Plenty of time to get this done though, tey cnat issue a NTK for 28 days after the ticket was slapped on the windscreen

[balixonline]

Thank you. I have attached the notice. It was issued at Parkwest, West Drayton UB7

 

balix pcn.pdf

[ericsbrother]

parking without a valid permit?

that is not a contractual consideration as it is clealry prohibited.

 

Prohibition doesn't create a contract, the landowner might sue you fo the damage to his tarmac caused by your car resting on it of a while but sending out a demand for a thousandth of a penny is pointless.

 

like nealry all residential parking they get the wording wrong or dont have the authority or cant offer terms for parking.

You cant agree to break a contract as the only way of forming it.

I cant sue you because you didnt murder my wife for example

 

that means it is simple to bat off any claim in a court but the problem is that little old ladies dotn understand thsi and dont want to be involved in the process so are more likely to want to pay up than have any fuss.

 

Try and persuade the keeper to let you know when the NTK arrives and see if they are willing to try and head this off at the pass.

 

Speaking to the landowner may get somewhere ,esp regarding the ill health of the person involved.

They tend to have managing agents and they are the ones taking a backhander to allow the parking cowboys on site so contact via them is rarely fruitful.

 

A campaigning local paper may well get the charge cancelled as a "gesture of goodwill" because they dont wwant everyone to knwo they are really just dishonest.

 

Howver, tHat is all for the future, getting your hands on the NTK is first move

[balixonline]

Thank you ericsbrother

 

I now have contact details of the driver. I spoke with him yesterday and requested to send a copy of NTK to me as they receive it as I will then dispute it on their behalf. 

 

I will post a copy of NTK as I am in receipt of it. 

[dx100uk]

has to arrive between 29-56 days.

else invalid

 

topic title updated for clarity.

 

dx

 

[balixonline]

I had kinda hoped that they may just not send it but unfortunately they have.

 

The gentleman received NTK (Notice to Keeper) today.

 

I have uploaded a copy here and would very much apprecaite guidace as to what can I do next. 

 

[dx100uk]

had to remove that

pcn number showing

[balixonline]

oh, apologies. I have further updated the file. (attached again)

1.pdf

[ericsbrother]

well, that opens a can of worms for them, who accessed the DVLA database, when did the keeper giver permission for PESS to pass on their data for processing by a company that has nothng to do with anything and as they are demanding £110 what about the discount period as the NTK MUST mention it.

All in all not good for the parking co but one problem with helping elderly people on matters like this is they are afraid that something will happen if they dotn pay up when the reality is that the worst that can happen is they get harassed by a buch of no-hopers.

[ericsbrother]

forgot to say, they have failed to give a proepr address for service of documents for either themselves or their client so not as valid NTK as it fails to pass the requirements in the POFA to be an invoice that create any liability. again, being stupid and greedy they wont know or care about that

[balixonline]

Could not agree more, she is very embarrassed that a good Samaritan has been inconvenienced because of her. 

 

She doesn't want the driver to be receiving notices etc. She is happy for her to receive it instead and asked me if there is a way for her to receive it (So iIcan deal on her behalf??)

[FTMDave]

I understand where you're coming from, and this will not be the answer you want, but it really would be better if the "Good Samaritan" came on here and dealt with the case themselves.

 

Firstly the fleecers have got this person's details from the DVLA, so the conmen will go after them.  There is no realistic way out of that.

 

It is very, very unlikely that this matter will end up in court, but in the very improbable event that it did, the "Good Samaritan" would have to know the legal arguments.  There is no point someone else knowing the law instead of the person in court.

 

Also this person contacting your neighbour contacting you leaves ample scope for details to be forgotten, important deadlines to be missed, etc.

 

If it's a small consolation, the parking company's claim already seems one of the most ridiculous on here and one of the easiest for the "Good Samaritan" to bat away. 

[ericsbrother]

If the keeper names you as the driver then you can take them on.

 

That will serve 2 purposes,

they will have to send all of their threatograms out again and that will cost them time and a bit of money

 

then they will be dealing with someone who as far as they know was actually there

so they wont be able to dispute your testimony whilst still trying to defend their almost impossible position regarding locus standi

 

What it will give away though is a countercalim for breach of the GDPR but I bet your elderly neighbour wouldnt be up for that anyway

[balixonline]

thank you FTMDave and ericsbrother. 

 

I passed on the second last message to them not long ago but would be happy to be named as the driver for sure and will take them up. 

 

Shall I ask them to send an email back to the company that this person (I) was the driver and contact me going forward? (that's it)

[ericsbrother]

you never email anyone, have you not read any other threads?

 

You use pen and paper and get them to do the same. The keeper names you as the driver and then you admit this when they contact you. Yu dont contact them first,

[balixonline]

Understood, thank you.

 

I will ask them to write to the company and provide my details as the driver and I will take it if I receive correspondence from the company.

[Mrs O'Frog]

Maybe I'm over cautious, but I have concerns. A big downside I can see, if this goes to court and you or the RK are asked about the identity of the driver, lying (whether for altruistic aims or not) is a very serious offence.

 

[balixonline]

didn't think of that lol but what are the odds it will go all the way to the court? I am sure ericsbrother have thought of it too and would not have suggested if this would be an issue going forward. 

 

Thank you for sharing the thought though, very helpful indeed. 

[ericsbrother]

it is not about lying, it is about accepting liability. The parking Co can create a keeper liability by following certyain protocols so nothing to stop someone accepting liability for the behaviour of another.

For example, your child takes some sweets from the display in a supermarket and you pay for them. The supermarket doesnt refuse your cash nor insist the child is too young to enter into discussions about what sweets they want as they cant form a contract themselves.

Also the parking co cant ask the RK anything after you have been named by them and accepted liability. If there was a great scheme where the keeper lied and you then said that you werent really the driver so there la la la then the courts would take a very dim view but you are going to fight this on other grounds rather than identity. The parking co has asked for this as they dont know themselves so they cant challenge your standing