Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • stuff and all if there no signed agreement in the return   dx  
    • 1st again why do you keep changing things before you send them   you've added counterclaim in to our std CPR 31:14 you sent? why? this opens you up to additional costs and I hope you didnt tick counterclaim when you did AOS on mcol too?   also I notice you've  played with our std OD defence above too...   pers I would refrain from continuing to change things as they are written in the frain they are for specific reasons.   your defence is due by 4pm Monday [day 33]   here are 2 versions you will ofcourse need to adapt them to lowells para no's and remove the NOA stuff as your docs show Lowell have complied with those. but don't forget to mention other documents provided to date notably statements contain no proof they came from Lloyds but rather Lowells own internal data system    dx   1. It is admitted with regards to the Defendant entering into an Agreement referred to in the Particulars of Claim ('the Agreement') with the [insert original creditor] . .  2. The defendant denies that the account exceeded the agreed overdraft limit due to overdrawing of funds but is as a result of unfair and extortionate bank charges/penalties being applied to the account. .  3. I refute the claimants claim is owed or payable. The amount claimed is comprised of amongst others default penalties/charges levied on the account for alleged late, missed or over limit payments. The court will be aware that these charge types and the recoverability thereof have been judicially declared to be susceptible to assessments of fairness under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 The Office of Fair Trading v Abbey National PLC and others (2009). I will contend at trial that such charges are unfair in their entirety. .  4. It is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer crediticon Act 1974. The Claimant has yet to provide a copy of the Notice of Assignment its claim relies upon. .  5. The claimant is denied from added section 69 interest within the total claimed that as yet to be decided at the courts discretion. .  6. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed. .  The claimant is also put to strict proof to:-. .  (a) Provide a copy agreement/facility arrangement along with the Terms and conditions at inception, that this claim is based on.  (b) Provide a copy of the Notice served under 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974 Demand /Recall Notice and Notice of Assignment.  (c) Provide a breakdown of their excessive charging/fees levied to the account with justification.  (d) Show how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed.  (e) Show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.  (f) Show how they have complied with sections III & IV of Practice Direction - Pre-action Conduct. .  7. On receipt of this claim I requested documentation by way of a CPR 31.14 request dated [xxxxxxx] namely the Agreement and Termination Demand Notice referred to in the claimants Particulars of Claim. The Claimant has failed to comply with this request. .  By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief. .  .............. or  Particulars of Claim  1.The claim is for the sum of 2470.56 in respect of monies owing pursuant to an overdraft facility under account number XXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX.  2.The debt was legally assigned by Santander UK Plc to the claimant and notice has been served.   3.The Defendant has failed to repay overdrawn sums owing under the terms and conditions of the bank account.   The Claimant claims:  The sum of 2470.56 Interest pursuant to s69 of the county courticon Act 1984 at a rate of 8.00 percent from the 7/04/2015 to the date hereof 14 days is the sum of 7.58Daily interest at the rate of .54  Costs Defence  The Defendant contends that the particulars of the claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.   1. It is admitted with regards to the Defendant once having had banking facilities with the original creditor Santander Bank. It is denied that I am indebted for any alleged balance claimed.   2. Paragraph 2 is denied.I am not aware or ever receiving any Notice of Assignment pursuant to the Law and Property Act 1925. It is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer crediticon Act 1974. The Claimant has yet to provide a copy of the Notice of Assignment its claim relies upon.   3. Paragraph 3 is denied. The Original Creditor has never served notice pursuant to 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974  Any alleged amount claimed could only consist in the main of default penalties/charges levied on the account for alleged late, rejected or over limit payments. The court will be aware that these charge types and the recoverability thereof have been judicially declared to be susceptible to assessments of fairness under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 The Office of Fair Trading v Abbeyicon National PLC and others (2009). I will contend at trial that such charges are unfair in their entirety.  4. As per Civil Procedureicon Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.  The claimant is also put to strict proof to:-.  (a) Provide a copy agreement/overdraft facility arrangement along with the Terms and conditions at inception that this claim is based on.  (b) Provide a copy of the Notice served under 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974 Demand /Recall Notice and Notice of Assignment.  (c) Provide a breakdown of all excessive charging/fees and show how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed.   (d) Show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.  (e) Show how they have complied with sections III & IV of Practice Direction - Pre-action Conduct.  5. On receipt of this claim I requested documentation by way of a CPR 31.14 request dated April 2015 namely the Agreement and Termination Demand Notice referred to in the claimants Particulars of Claim. The Claimant has failed to comply with this request.   By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.  Regards  Andy    
    • Hi   Just read your thread and looked at the Docs posted in your PDF.   1. from AST to rent a Car Parking space you need to have signed a Car Parking Agreement for a Space and for visitors you should have asked permission for another space in advance with a fee to pay. (i also assume renting a parking space would be at a cost)   2. You have no signed Car Parking Agreement nor visitor space agreement.   Did you not fully read that AST before you signed it and pick up what is stated about parking and ask them about this Car Parking Agreement and if you need one to park in the car park?   You could formally complain to them about what was verbally said to you but unless you have evidence of this it may be hard to prove.   You should also contact them and ask how you go about renting a Car Parking space/costs and about the Car Parking Agreement also what the process is for a visitor car parking space/costs.   You need to be aware that they could class you and your visitor as illegally parking in there car park without consent nor a signed car parking agreement which they could use as a Breach of your Tenancy Agreement so you need to be careful in how you are approaching this and where you are parking.   Just for info on checking Manchester Life website they have numerous buildings/apartments/car parks but you may be in a building where some of the apartments are leasehold and as part of there leasehold they may have purchased a car parking space in that building. (so how do you know you are not parking in a space that someone in the building has legally purchased?)
    • It converts a forthwith to monthly payment which is set to suit your finances...so if £5 a month so be it...rubber stamped by the court....if you try to negotiate direct ...which it sounds thats what your doing.....they can alter it whenever they feel like it and if you dont comply can execute the judgment...but not if you submit an N245 as advised.   But hey what do we know ? 
  • Our picks

pep21

ParkingEye POPLA Appeal Rejected Glynn Square Wolverton

Recommended Posts

I am hoping somebody can give me some advice on the following.

 

I parked in a car park which states that there is 1.5 hours free parking for customers of the shops there.

I parked for 1:45:16 on a Sunday morning at 8:15am.

The shops all opened at 10am.

I had intended to leave well before the 1.5 hours but unfortunately my key battery was not working (I had been aware of the need to change it but hadn't) and therefore had to wait for my partner to bring me a spare key. This took her over 30 minutes as we live 15 minutes away, she had to dress herself and the kids and find the spare key.

 

I explained this to ParkingEye who rejected this

I therefore appealed to POPLA who rejected my claims using ParkingEye vs Beavis which is a completely different case with different circumstances.

I argued that I could not be in breach of contract because there is no contract offered for the car park when the stores are closed which is true.

 

POPLA rejected my claims as follows:

'The appellant has identified as the driver of the vehicle on the day of the parking event.

As such, I am considering the appellant’s liability for the PCN, as the driver.

 

When entering onto a private car park such as this one, any motorist forms a contract with the operator by remaining on the land for a reasonable period.

The signage in place sets out the terms and conditions of this contract.

 

The appellant explains that is he parked to use the Gym on site on a Sunday morning.

The appellant states the Gym did not have any parking facilities.

The appellant states did not overstay on site.

The appellant states his car was immobilised in the period it was there for a short time, meaning he was unable to access the car.

 

Whilst I note this comment, and the situation raised by the appellant.

I am unable to allow the appeal on this basis.

 

The operator has provided photographic evidence of the signage in place in the car park, which states:

“1 ½ hours max stay… Customer Only Car Park…

For use only whilst shopping in store…

Failure to comply with the following will result in a Parking Charge of: £100”.

 

The operator has provided photographic evidence of the appellant’s vehicle, entering the car park at 08:15, and exiting at 10:00, totalling a stay of 1 hour, 45 minutes.

The evidence provided shows that the appellant’s vehicle was parked on site longer than permitted as stated on the signage.

The appellant states that the signage does not offer a contract outside of store opening times and therefore cannot be subject to a PCN.

 

Whilst I note this comment, the signage clearly states that the parking on site is for store users only whilst shopping.

The appellant has stated within their appeal that they were attending a nearby gym.

The appellant has not identified that he was shopping on site on the day of the event.

 

Whilst I note the signage does not specify what parking restrictions apply when the shops are closed, the signage does not suggest that parking is without restriction during the time the shops are closed. Therefore, I am satisfied that the terms are applicable at all times on site.

 

It is the onus of the motorist to review the terms and conditions of the signage before parking.

Should they reject these terms, they have the opportunity to exit the site within a reasonable timeframe, usually 10 minutes, to seek alternative parking before any enforcement action is taken. However, as the appellant’s vehicle remained parked, they have accepted the terms and ultimately a £100 Parking Charge.

 

The appellant states that there is no landowner consent to persons being charged outside of store opening hours.

The operator has provided evidence that it has the appropriate landowner authority to manage parking on site. A

s such, I am satisfied based on the available evidence that it can issue PCN’s under authority.

 

The appellant states that the PCN is unfair and disproportionate.

The appellant states he has been asked to pay when no monetary loss has been subjected on any of the shops at the venue when they were closed.

 

The legality of parking charges was considered in a high profile court case, Parking Eye v Beavis.

This case was ultimately decided by the Supreme Court which concluded that:

“… the £85 charge is not a penalty.

Both Parking Eye and the landowners had a legitimate interest in charging overstaying motorists, which extended beyond the recovery of any loss.

 

The interest of the landowners was the provision and efficient management of customer parking for the retail outlets.

The interest of Parking Eye was in income from the charge, which met the running costs of a legitimate scheme plus a profit margin.

Further, the charge was neither extravagant nor unconscionable, having regard to practice around the United Kingdom, and taking into account the use of this particular car park and the clear wording of the notices.”

 

The charge in this instance, while it may not be a genuine pre-estimate of loss, is in the region of the £85 charge decided upon by the Supreme Court, is neither extravagant nor unconscionable and is therefore reasonable. Ultimately, it is the motorist’s responsibility to comply with the terms and conditions of the car park.

 

Upon consideration of the evidence, the appellant parked for longer than permitted and therefore did not comply with the terms and conditions.

As such, I conclude that the PCN has been issued correctly.

Accordingly, I must refuse this appeal.

 

I find this hard to accept and see this as completely unfair.

I am thinking of going to court and arguing this but am reluctant to have to pay anymore than the £100 fine!

 

any advice?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Welcome to CAG pep21, I'm sure some advice will be forthcoming shortly, where in any paperwork does it refer to the penalty as a "Fine"?

 

You appealed to PE as the driver  then when appeal rejected you appealed to POPLA is that the sequence of events?


We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

 

The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Brassnecked

 

The sequence of events is correct. The term 'fine' is not actually used anywhere. That is simply me using the word. 

 

Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

go check the granted planning permission for the whole site and what it says about car parking

you will find that it does not state 1.5hrs, more like 3hrs free when granted, and that no-one can dictate patrons using it MUST visit an on site store to be allowed to park for free there.

 

no-one can change that least of all a stupid PPC.

 


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have just been through the plans and there actually doesn't seem to be any reference to any time period from what I can see but I can't make out all the wording on the images. 

It seems they put in the camera and then retrospectively applied for the permission which was granted: 

Application Number: 15/02384/FUL

Location: 4 Glyn Square Wolverton Milton Keynes MK12 5JQ

Description: Installation of automatic number plate recognition cameras (retrospective)

Decision Date: 2016-01-22

 

I think it is ridiculous to make me pay money for when the shops were closed. Who should I write to about this considering the POPLA decision?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You read up on other cases. Theyre exactly the same as yours.  DOnt worry about popla. The decision isnt binding on you at all.


Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

now the retrospective PP only makes it meaningful for those who were caught out before the permission was granted and the retrospective bit is a red herring as there isnt such a thing as a retrospective contract.

 

In your case you have  decided to confuse  the terms of the offer of a contract and argue a point that is completely irrelevant and so wasnt going to get you naywhere BUT it does raise an interesting get out that has a chance of success if a judge takes it literally rather than its intended meaning.

 

As you werent a customer then you were trespassing as you hadnt been invited on to the land to shop ( and couldnt shop). PE admit this so you cant be subject to the terms that apply to genuine customers and therefore cant breach a contract that doesnt exist.

 

What they have totally ignored is the fact your vehicle was broken down and so not in breach of  contract  for that either as any contract you wished to be bound by was frustrated by the breakdown so neither party is obliged to continue under its terms.

 

Of course POPLA have nothing to say about this because the BPA doesnt allow them to consider this rather inconvenient fact as it loses their members money ( and the IAS dont allow any appeals because they dont read them)

PE wont consider your appeal because how else are they goping to make money?

 

What to do next?

Nothing, wait and let them chase you rather than say the wrong thing.

In the meanwhile pictures of the signage and also the entrance to the land from the public highway,

signs there or not and also pictures of any partition or delineation of the land such as where the gym is as it will have its own curtillage whether that has parking spaces on it or not.

 

as for going to court to argue this,

you cant take them to court as you have made no loss so waiting until they sue you is the only way of having your day out but chances are use the correct defence to a claim and they will then drop the claim rather than suffer costs.

 

 so you wait and then you wait some more.

Read up a load of other threads (hundreds not just a few) and get yourself acquainted to what is normal in these situations so you dont panic and say the wrong thing in a hurry

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Other uncomfortable fact  for PE is as EB says there is no contract, then Beavis cannot apply either.


We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

 

The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

POPLA deemed the contract to be valid though. Who are POPLA anyway?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

old boys club of PPC's members

not independent at all.

 

dx

 


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, pep21 said:

POPLA deemed the contract to be valid though. Who are POPLA anyway?

you need to do a bit of background reading for this from now on. You have plenty of time before they send you the next begging letter but do make a start on it soon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I waited and I waited and have ignored the repeated requests for money inclusive of them sending me a goodwill gesture to reduce the 'fine' back to the original if I paid up within 14 days of the letter being sent.

 

Whilst all this was going on I complained to the landowners, whilst preparing myself for my day in court and they too felt the charge was ridiculous so they requested it be cancelled and it apparently has been. Thanks for all help offered. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

requested- did they gte back to you and say that it has been?

Do not trust anyone's word so for the moment keep going as though they are going to continue asking for money

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

do they let you know that it has been cancelled?  Or do you just wait to see if they send you another invoice?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

no they wont as that would be admitting they are wrong and that would open the floodgates

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Keep everything safe for 6 years, even if they have cancelled. It's not unheard of for them to "lose" the record that it was cancelled and start chasing for payment again a few years down the line.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...