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Hi all,

quinck question that comes to mind - after the long conversation to agree lower payments with the solicitor acting on behalf of Future mortgages.


I have my court Date sheduled for tomorrow 3 o'clock since we both have agreed terms, the solicitor said that its up to me if i want to attend the court hearing or not. Meaning that a suspended sentence will be put in place.


Advice - please since we have agreed in writing regarding the new payments - why on earth is there intent of going to court? and further still should i be attending it?


again - they have a agreed to my revisede payments in writing and i have spoken to them as well.


I wonder if me not attending would cause any ill effects or i'm i just seeing too much into this?


would be greatful for any thoughts on the matter.

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l think to be honest l would go to court anyway, l would think the court would see it as a negative if you didn't turn up to defend yourself and to state that your offers of payment are manageable by you.


l am sure l will be corrected by the experts here if lm wrong :)

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You absolutely MUST attend court!! otherwise you will not know what the other side's solicitor is saying to the judge and you could end up with an order you are not expecting. Take all the paperwork with you to court so you can refer to it in the hearing if necessary.


Do not trust them to act in your interests if you are not there !

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My advice is based on my opinion and experience only. It is not to be taken as legal advice - if you are unsure you should seek professional help.

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Hi All,

well i did attend court yesterday:

few observations


its such a chaotic experience so much for a quiet hearing and for people that are there to help,

i was trying to speak with the usher among a sea of people.

Quiet it was not!

More like a fruit and veg market!


Then i found myself talking to a chap who was the duty solicitor who helps people who are there for an hearing

- This guy left me cold!

since allow me to be vulgar here - you could tell from a mile that he could not give a toss

(maybe its because he sees millions of people every day)


Same can be said for the judge

- he looked and sounded impartial but distinctively was on the side of the Mortgage company.

As per protocol one should be asked to forward a statement.

I was never asked that - so i asked the judge if i could as its part of protocol, and here's the funny bit, we have an arrangement there's no necessity. Ok fine.. not an issue.


there was a lot of talking between the judge and the Solicitor acting for Future Mortgages

- everything got thrashed by the two of them, if i was there or not it would of not made any difference.


At one point i was told - Suspended sentence - keep up your repayments, leave us now. goodbye!

I though what a guy!..


Long story short

- i dunno about you people but regrettably this to me showed the utter contempt of the system towards someone (like many others) that is trying to stay afloat, frankly its disgusting.

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  • 4 months later...

Morning everyone,

i just received a letter advicing me that my dear friends (not) at Future Mortgages have sold my Mortgage to a company called Engage Credit Limited.


in the letter Future Mortgages goes to great lenght about me not taking "any further actions" this is the classic - we've sold your mortgage.


My question is - can they do that?


I had loads of problems with Future Mortgages in the past,

mainly that i had to endure a period where i was not able to make full payments,

and i had to go to court to defend myself and my home as they tried to seek reposession of the property.


i've been challanging the charges that they have applied to my mortgage account which are scandalous to say the least

and even after court proceedings their solicitor sent me the bill for their involvement,

accordingly they mention that any legal cost would be charged back to me as per the terms and conditions of my Mortgage

- which again i think its scandalous.


what is of interest to me is to know if they are just off loading the account now that i'm attacking them and questioning the whole mortgage agreement, charges, the works.


also to know if theres any availavle info on this Engage Credit Limited - so far on google i'n not found much.


look forward to hear back thanks for taking the time to read this

- as always this site is a absolute gold mine of information & great help by some great people.


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Yes, I've been in a very similar position to you, although as yet I've not received any bill from their solicitors.


I wonder if Future Mortgages are re-assigning ALL their customer a/cs or only selectively ? I do know, that Future Mortgages (and parent Citibank) want to get out of mortgages altogether.


What worries me is that come Jan 2011, my interest rate should go down from 7.9% to 3.62% - practically half the current repayment. Reason being Dec 2010 is the end of my 3 yr fixed rate. The new rate I've based upon Future Mortgage's own figures (0.73% above the current 2.89% libor rate) The new libor rate I believe won't be announced until mid December.


Of course, goodness only knows what interest rate Engage Credit are going to charge - I bet it will be one hell of a lot more than FM's rate. So can they do this ?


So I too will need advice on what I can do should Engage Credit charge a substantially higher interest rate than Future Mortgages.


What's to stop them charging 10% thereby knowingly setting a rate I cannot hope to afford ?

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Yes, I am in similar position to you. I received a letter from future Mortgage on Sat advising me that as from 5th Nov, my mortgage will be with Engage Credit Ltd. I am a Mortgage Broker and I have never heard of this company. It look like Future Mortgage are selling there lender book on to a new company. I think they can do this but I will find out. I am registered with the FSA and Engage Credit is reg with the FSA but only from 28th August 2008. on the FSA register it is showing that they can not hold client monies?.


What worries me is that come March 2011, my interest rate should go down from 6.9%.

Future Mortgage advised me that my Monthly payments come March 2011 will come down more than half. But what will happen now with Engage Credit. Yes they can charge what they want.

Engaged is a Prime and sub prime lender. so there interest rates will be high.


We all need to keep together.

I have been paying my mortgage each month but I am one Month behind and they want to sell my mortgage on. What is going on.

The FSA have a big thing at present ie, Treating Customers Fairly ( TCF) This is not.

I can go on for ever. I will be phoning both companies on Monday to see what is going on.


Should I jump in the river now or wait.






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We are in a similar position too. The last three years has been a struggle and we were so much looking forward to the rate dropping in January 2011. Every month I ring up and pay all I can afford and have often mentioned that January cannot come quick enough for us. Nobody ever let on something like this would happen. We are so worried.

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what is also a concern is that at this very moment i pay a low rate due to the fact my rate has gone down back in July 2010,

so i have been able to to pay full ammount and plus add 150 pounds extra toward the arrears that i have on the mortgage.


Now the interesting thing is - if they are a subprime lender - they will use the LIBOR interest rate, which right now is rather low,

if they decided to use the BOA interest rate it would be even better.


in any case this is just like they have sold the Debt to a debt agency.

what is important here is to understand if these guys are going to throw the book away and start really turning the screws on.


i'm on a interest only payments right now, but come the end of 2011 i can change mortgage provider

with no penalties so in essence i need one more year with these monsters.


what is of real importance is to understand what can these new owners can and can't do,

interms of changing rates, either way i mean the LIBOR is still low.


But this is a concern to me a genuine concern, i have a bad feeling about this change.

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I've got a 2nd mortgage with Future and haven't received notice of any change yet. Mine started in 2005.


On a happier note I have recently claimed back all my arrears charges and interest via a court claim. After several letters to Future they were not going to give a penny. So I sued. As soon as it got to court they agreed to refund.


If anyone has any ideas about challenging the agreements I'd also be interested to know!


BAE :-)

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I have a bit more information following a discussion with HMS, who helped saved me from an eviction at the 11th hour.


We all know the high street lenders, who keep their mortgagees throughout the term of the policy i.e 25 years.


But the myriad of other lesser well known lenders such as Future Mortgages, never had any intention of keeping their mortgage book for anything like 25 years. It is VERY common practice for them to sell on at a later date.


What they do instead, is to make a killing by packaging up a proportion of their book, get the 'triple A' credit rating and sell them to investment banks quoting the massive returns available on loans secured against property.


But then there was the crash and lenders like FM cannot get a triple A rating on any of their book. The investment banks won't touch them with a barge pole. And so FM like many others are looking to anyone else who might be interested to buy the package, albeit at a much reduced rate, so that FM can recover their investments back. In FMs case to re-invest in what they believe is a bigger growth market such as their parent's (citigroup) egg brand.


Now insofar as Engage Credit is concerned, they are most definitely not suppose to increase their libor rate loading above that which the previous lender was set at. i.e in FMs case this is 2.89% above libor. In HMS' experience, no homeowner has ever complained about an increase in rates - only an increase in harassment.


Most of the package will contain properties where there is a reasonable amount of equity. It is this equity that Engage Credit may be keen to eat into, by using various charges and fees.


The law and rules in this area can be very grey, and even where it is clear, is often ignored by the lender anyway. And so it's important to all stick together and watch very closely what Engage Credit DO rather than what they SAY.


HMS want me to keep them informed about what Engage do.


As more information is gathered by others here, I'm confident a clearer picture will evolve and we will have a better idea as to what to expect from Engage Credit.

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we also recieved a letter from future mortgages on saturday stating our mortgage has been given to a company called engage credit limited. i cannot find any info on this company, and have also been in similar situations as everyone else who has posted on this thread we are not happy but will try and keep u informed if we hear anything about e.c.l

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Good morning every one.

I am the Mortgage Broker back again. I phone Future Mortgage and they advised me that my original Terms of my Mortgage can not be changed, ie, I have a fixed rate of 6.6% for 3 Years and I come out next March and my rate in April 2011 should be approx 2.24% above LIBOR ie, 2.74% only if the LIBOR stays the same.


You need to look on your Mortgage Offer to see what you deal is when you come out of your Fixed rate.

If any body came out of there fixed rate with engage credit please advise us if this is what they do.


I have made a formal compliant to future and I have asked for a list of all there charges they have put on my Mortgage Account. I am going to ask for the charges to be refunded back just like the previous person.

Future Mortgage is on longer my mortgage lender so I will take them to court to refund my charges.

If the previous person that took Future to court please advise what you did, ie, was it a small claims court etc.

It would help if you could advise us all. many thanks.


When I get the reply from Future I will them write the the FSA etc.

I would ask them to investigate the Treating customers fairly. (TCF). This is a big thing in the industry at the moment, because I am regulated under the FSA and so are future mortgage and engage credit. At the moment it looks as we may be better off with engaged credit rather than future mortgage, but engage credit needs to treat all of us the same as future mortgages, as per your mortgage offer, this cannot be changed. I understand that engage credit has purchased a number of mortgage books from mortgage lenders that have gone into liquidation, but there is a lot more behind-the-scenes with future mortgage, as they are part of Citibank. We will all receive a letter from engage credit in the next few days which should explain more. When I phoned future mortgages they were not very helpful and I think I spoke to the tea person rather than their professional given advice. Engage credit was more helpful in understanding and advising me the original terms of my mortgage to stands.

We all need to stay together for this and if necessary take future mortgage to court and to do a documentary on TV, but I think we are all in the same boat. Future mortgage has sold us down the river.

Edited by martsmt
Future Mortgage information
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I have also received the letter from Future Mortgages advising that the account was going to Engage Credit Ltd.


Problems have been experienced with Future Mortgages, and a firm of Solicitors acting for them - Wallers of Newcastle culminating very recently in an Eviction Order.


Despite making agreed payments - in cash! - to the Future Mortgage account, Wallers advised me that their records - via Future - showed missed payments, and Registered letters had been returned.


I was able to prove payments (although Future have previously "lost" a payment of £1,250) and the eviction order was lifted - but then it should never have reached that stage had Future - and Wallers - acted in a professional manner.


Wallers, and Future Mortgages, have consistently sent mail to an incorrect address - and then used the excuse that mail was unanswered or returned. Has anyome else had this experience?


I referred the matter to my MP and he has referred the matter to the FSA. It may be useful to know if other clients of Future Mortgages have experienced similiar problems with both Future and their Solicitors.

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@Barbetuk - yeah i totally agree with you they use these numb-skulls of wallers solicitior based in the North East.

This is how i ended up in court because they ( wallers ) said that i missed a payment,

at the time i said nothing i knew full well that i didn't as i kept a record and kept copies of all bak transactions

and also a copy on who the beneficiary was via BACS,


so when in court as they tryed to seek reposession - i presented the evidence.


There was noone there from FM but they looked like total fools and Wallers had to admit to a clerical error!

but they are sending me the bill for legal costs!


which i'm challanging, and reporting them FM that is to Information commissioner,

plus i raised serious doubts on the actuall expertise in managing teh mortgage account with the financial Ombudsman.


@martsmt - initially went head on with FM asking for breakdown of charges and they never responded,

with anything that resembles a logical approach to charges, and as you point out to call them is like talking to a brick wall,


they simply do not know what they are talking about.


I'm now using a solicitor to persue them, since the last reply i received from FM was cluttered in legal jargon.

So now as mentioned i'm using a solicitor, so far the solicitor has costed me £250 pound to essencially make them aware that

now they need to comply or the next step is a date in court to ask the charges to be wiped out and after that to sue for damages.


These ingnoramous of FM wrote a short letter that with the sale of the account they are no longer liable.

. hahahaha how wrong they are on that.


I'll keep you posted on the developments but these cowboys are now on the run, thinking that by offloading the Mortgage they are cutting their losses, how wrong they are.



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Please do not make the mistake of thinking Future Mortgages are stupid or incompetant. All they do is calculated and quite deliberate.


If they can 'manufacture' a situation where they can reposess, they will. There is no penalty for them trying. Anything they can do to invoke charges against the equity - they will.


They are determined and ruthless people - not bumbling idiots. They want the equity in your properties and will stoop to any level to get their hands on it.


Again, do not make the mistake of thinking these people are incompetant idiots. To do so is to grossly under-estimate what you are up against.

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morning, I too have recieved this letter, ive been on jsa for 10 mths but my mortgage has been paid partially buy the benefit office...ive never been out of work and its a struggle..im worried that engage will increase my payments as in the letter it clearly states that Engage are responsible for seting interest rates..ive called Future and spoke to the teaboy! i asked to talk to a supervisor so was transferred and got the same answer...." its a business decision to transfer some of our clients out" .i am in debt for about 3000.00 which isnt good I know. and im very worried i shall now be slammed with charges and hiked up interest rates..there is a large equity on my house which i would like to have stayed there.....

I was told to email them my complaint to Future and i would get a response...so if anyone else would like to complain or get an explanation be my guest

ok im not allowed to enter the email address...just call and ask for the email address to citigroup...to be addressed

for the attention of Customer relations


I can not find anything about this company it sounds like a credit/debt recovery company to me and we should all be very watchful of what they do..to be told its been done already and to talk to Engage about my mortgage worries from the 5th nov fills be with horror...I took my mortgage out with Future not Engage and when i get myself a new job and get straight I was looking to move my mortgage as its only interest only and has just gone down..what chance do i have now if its held by a debt company....views pleeeese

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Red11 - Bobthe Crate has a valid point. Future Mortgages (and their parent company, Citibank) are not idiots - even if they act like them!


The actions of Wallers, acting for Future Mortgages, appears to have been an opportunistic attempt to

a) attempt some last minute repossessions, and

b) "fee-building" exercise.


The fees debited to our mortgage accounts by Wallers need to be challenged - especially when there were no grounds for action in the first place. I do not know if FSA have any control over the actions of Solicitors - but the entire matter of the handling of the accounts has been presented to FSA. The more people who "come on board" then the stronger our case for a full investigation of the books of Future Mortgages and Wallers!

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Hi all - first time post.


I have experience of the sort of deal that seems to be going on here and hopefully I can set the record straight about the things that are probably going on.

I'm not trying to defend anyone but am going to try & dispel some of the myths and misinformation that's on this thread.


Engage Credit Limited are owned by Deutsche Bank who have been registered with the FSA a lot longer than 2008.

DB are a pretty reputable company and both companies are registered & authourized by the FSA.

While this is no guarantee, it does give a great deal of confidence that both organizations are being monitored on a very regularly basis

with regular meetings (at least quarterly) with their FSA 'handlers'.


The note on the FSA register that Engage cannot hold client monies has nothing to do with mortgage lenders.

This is intended to cover companies who hold funds in trust for clients.

Engage will have no need for this since they do not accept deposits,

do not manage client investments and

do not act as solicitors and so will have no client accounts.


You would have hoped that a registered and competent mortgage broker would have known that.


Nigh-on all mortgage contracts (i.e. mortgage offers to me & you) written since about 1990 will have a clause in them

that allows the lender to transfer assets to a.n.other lender.


None of us really have much choice with this since

a) we could have refused to sign the contract & gone elsewhere and/or

b) almost every other lender would have had a similar clause.


Future Mortgages are not selling all of their accounts to Engage so not everyone would have got the letter.


From the press release that was released at the end of September it seemed to represent about a quarter of their book.

The chances are that Deutsche Bank simply didn't want to buy all the cases in one lump because of liquidity or capital constraints/availability.


Citi closed Future Mortgages to new business in early 2008 as part of a public global strategy to reduce its mortgage assets.

Therefore it is no surprise that they have sold some of it.


I don't think that Citi has ever sold any of the Future Mortgages book to another company before

- they would have sold the mortgage accounts to you & I to keep on their own books.


If a big organisation such as Citi couldn't be efficient with their funding costs then no one can - despite the credit crunch.


Believe me, no lender wants to take a property into possession.

It crystallizes a loss on their portfolio, places loads of extra governance burdens on them and a load of work.

Repossession really is a last resort. That's it.


The FSA don't govern how solicitors work. It may sound a bit obvious but that's the Law Society's job.


Now this is the most important bit:


Any transaction of this type means that the terms & conditions you all have with Future Mortgages will not change now that they have been transferred to Engage.

This includes what interest you are charged.

How your interest is calculated is written into your mortgage offer

and since this forms part of the 'inducement to sale' when you took out your mortgage,

they can't change it.


So, if your fixed rate moves to a LIBOR tracker when it matures, it still will.

If they don't do this the FSA will slap them down pretty quickly.

So you really shouldn't get your knickers in a twist about that.


You can choose to believe what I've written or not but I work with this sort of thing day in/day out in detail.

Hopefully for most of you it will put your minds at ease.





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The Good Guys - and I thought I was cynical!!!


However, you may have a point, although Hypothecation could be writing for Engage Credit.


Hypothecation - a "Google" search shows a big fat Zero in respect of Engage Credit - perhaps you can enlighten us mere mortals as to where your information was obtained?

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I can guarantee you that I am not and nor have I ever been employed by Future Mortgages or Engage!


I'm just someone who has experience with this sort of transaction - that's all there is to it - and all of this information can be found if you look hard enough - Google shows you some things but there are other places such as Reuters, PA, etc.


I'd also say look at the principles involved more than the detail since these are the rules that lenders have to abide by.



Edited by Hypothecation
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"Repossession really is a last resort. That's it."

I'm sorry Hypothecation, but that has got to be one of the worst, most unkind deceits ever perpertrated upon the general public by the financial & legal institutions.


There are so many, so many documented cases where reposession has NOT been sought as last resort. ~ far from it. Don't believe me ? Go and talk to the myriad of volunteer organisations that strive to prevent unnecessary reposessions - there are a great deal, each and every year. Why do you guys continue to peddle this such blatantly untrue propoganda ?


There is rarely any loss in monetary terms for lenders reposessing, especially where there is plenty of equity which they will be keen to eat into (and solicitors acting on behalf of the lenders). It's a real money spinner for both of them, which many on this forum are already experiencing. I doubt your words of reassurance in this regard are any match whatsoever for the actual actions lenders and their solicitors are already engaged upon.


Whenever I hear that phrase " reposession is a last resort" it reminds of the other propoganda dished out frequently, "lenders have a duty to ensure they get the best possible price for a reposessed property". Again, utter nonsense, for the pure & simple reason there is absolutely no penalty for any lender failing in that duty.

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Hi all


I'm another FM lender who has had various issues with them over the past couple of years (currently being adjudicated by the incompetent FO) and recently received that pathetic letter last weekend. Apologies for not getting on sooner but only managed to find this site yesterday and then experienced delays in registering.


In simple terms ECL "arrange regulated mortgage contracts, to provide admistration of regulated mortgage contracts and faciliate the financing and realisation of mortgage assets along with related services which are incidental to the activities of a mortgage lender, mortgage broker or administrator". In short, a glorified debt recovery operation with cash to invest.


See the attached.............and there'll be more


Let me have your thoughts - we may have to move fast protect our interests



10.11.05 Engage Credit offer to redeem mortgages.pdf

10.11.05 Engage Credit join CML.pdf

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