Chiltern Rails - ticket not valid for entire journey **RESOLVED OOC**

[Andres1974]

Good morning all. I am very glad I found this forum.

I wanted to request assistance on a few questions please.

 

Story:

I was caught with a ticket from Marylebone to location B (my home location), but the ticket was only valid to location A.

This trainline has different journeys, where some do stop in location A, but this one in particular didn't. It was straight to my home.

The ticket inspector came and asked for my ticket, which i showed.

 

He inquired about the ticket and I hesitated, but made up a story that I had a business meeting in location A, but he didn't believe me (I don't blame him).

He then asked for my ID and I told him I didn't have it with me.

 

He asked for my name and address and proof (like a bank statement), which I showed from my phone.

He was going to take a picture and I put my phone away,

 

he then started asking about my date of birth and what I did for a living.

At that point and to add to the fire,  i started asking him if he had the right to ask for all this information as he was a civilian.

Obviously, he didn't like that.

 

I asked as I felt intimated, he then said that he could call the British Transit Police if I refused to cooperate.

I told him I had cooperated, he wanted by name and address and I had given those to him, that I felt I should be able to inquire about how much authority he had over a civilian and he was one him self.

 

He then asked me to get off with him in location B,

he sat in a bench and started writing in a notepad what seemed to be the recollection of questions and answers.

 

I realized we were not going to get to any resolution so I asked if he could legally hold me.

He said "no", but that he was almost done.

 

I decided to walk away, he turn his camera and read a version of the Miranda Rights (if this questions could be used in court, etc) and started following me.

I replied "no" and carried on walking. 

 

By reading the forum, i am pretty sure I am going to get a letter.

 

My question: 

 

1. Is there a point to hire a solicitor to help me deal with this from the get go?

If this is the case, does anyone know the approximate cost and recommended ones. 

 

2. When I get the letter, I was thinking that instead of writing the summary of events from below,

just simply stating 'Yes, i was a with ticket that didn't complete the full journey' admitting I was in the wrong and start asking to pay the ticket and a fine?

Is there a point telling the whole story? 

 

Has anyone had an experience similar to mine?

I would appreciate any feedback, tips and recommendations. 

[dx100uk]

I would await the letter, IF one comes

then we'll deal with what it is ACTUALLY charging you with appropriately.

[BazzaS]

I can’t see how a solicitor will help.

await the letter, and see what they are considering proceeding with.

 

they might go for the (strict liability) Byelaw offence (which they will achieve no problem).

 

they may choose to use the “with intent to avoid” Regulation of Railways Act 1889 s5(3)(b) statute, and it isn’t a stretch that they will prove intent to a court’s satisfaction.

 

Given you weren’t entirely compliant with the member of rail staff : how do you intend to persuade them to use an alternative to prosecution? 

[Stigy]

On 18/04/2019 at 10:57, Andres1974 said:

Good morning all. I am very glad I found this forum.

I wanted to request assistance on a few questions please.

 

Story:

I was caught with a ticket from Marylebone to location B (my home location), but the ticket was only valid to location A.

This trainline has different journeys, where some do stop in location A, but this one in particular didn't. It was straight to my home.

The ticket inspector came and asked for my ticket, which i showed.

 

He inquired about the ticket and I hesitated, but made up a story that I had a business meeting in location A, but he didn't believe me (I don't blame him).

He then asked for my ID and I told him I didn't have it with me.

 

He asked for my name and address and proof (like a bank statement), which I showed from my phone.

He was going to take a picture and I put my phone away,

 

he then started asking about my date of birth and what I did for a living.

At that point and to add to the fire,  i started asking him if he had the right to ask for all this information as he was a civilian.

Obviously, he didn't like that.

 

I asked as I felt intimated, he then said that he could call the British Transit Police if I refused to cooperate.

I told him I had cooperated, he wanted by name and address and I had given those to him, that I felt I should be able to inquire about how much authority he had over a civilian and he was one him self.

 

He then asked me to get off with him in location B,

he sat in a bench and started writing in a notepad what seemed to be the recollection of questions and answers.

 

I realized we were not going to get to any resolution so I asked if he could legally hold me.

He said "no", but that he was almost done.

 

I decided to walk away, he turn his camera and read a version of the Miranda Rights (if this questions could be used in court, etc) and started following me.

I replied "no" and carried on walking. 

 

By reading the forum, i am pretty sure I am going to get a letter.

 

My question: 

 

1. Is there a point to hire a solicitor to help me deal with this from the get go?

If this is the case, does anyone know the approximate cost and recommended ones. 

 

2. When I get the letter, I was thinking that instead of writing the summary of events from below,

just simply stating 'Yes, i was a with ticket that didn't complete the full journey' admitting I was in the wrong and start asking to pay the ticket and a fine?

Is there a point telling the whole story? 

 

Has anyone had an experience similar to mine?

I would appreciate any feedback, tips and recommendations. 

 

You were of course quite within your rights to ask questions with regard to the member of staff’s authority over you etc, and all you legally have to supply is your name and address. It sounds as though he thought you were being difficult? This doesn’t help your case of course, but that’s how it sounded Reading your post. 

 

I suggest awaiting any correspondence from the train operator and go from there. You mentioned you were read your rights, or words to that effect? You were cautioned, but it sounds like you chose not to answer any questions. This is of course your right, but in refusing to answer questions, you can’t really submit any defence for your actions should the matter go to court. That’s the whole idea of the caution.

 

reading your post, it sounds like you want to hold your hands up anyway, so is and when a letter does arrive, I’d suggest a ‘damage limitation’ approach and send the default grovelling reply asking to meet their reasonable admin charges to keep the matter out of court.

[Andres1974]

Hello and thanks for your replies. So the letter did arrive today, which i have attached as a PDF. 

 

Going back to my original post, can someone provide advise? I want to hold my hands up and offer to pay, but unsure what would me the 'admin' charges, how much should I offer; do i need to elaborate on the details of the incident or just saying 'Yes, i was a with ticket that didn't complete the full journey'. Is there a template I can use? 

 

Thank you very much for your replies and help

Full page photo.pdf

[dx100uk]

you don't offer a 'sum' 

 

see this example letter...post 15

 

 

[Andres1974]

 

 

 

PROSECUTIONS UNIT 

 

To whom it may concern:

 

I would like to first and foremost apologize profusely for my regretful actions.

I pride myself on my integrity and honesty and I feel shameful for my moment of very poor judgement for not having a valid ticket for my entire journey on April 16th. My ticket was valid from Marylebone to Wembley and I boarded a train for a journey from Marylebone to Gerrards Cross. 

 

I was panic-stricken when questioned by the Inspector and instead of raising my hands and admitting that I didn’t have a valid ticket for the entire journey, I started making non sense excuses, which understandably only made the matter worse.

 

I am just so sorry for my actions and the inconvenience caused to all involved and would like to request that you agree to settle this incident out of court by accepting immediate payment of the unpaid fare and any incurred admin costs that my actions have caused Chiltern Railways.

  

I would appreciate your consideration and I sincerely hope that you can show some leniency in this matter.

 

I am very concerned that prosecution for a first time, unintentional action might have a disproportionate effect on my future employment as it is essential that a clean CRB record is maintained by me.

[BazzaS]

They'll look at that, see the obvious flaw, and (probably) say "ohh, look, its got a copy of a line from the letter we first saw in Nov 2012".

 

There is no "magic bullet" letter, but I'd suggest:

a) Not saying something that they'll immediately say "well, that doesn't seem strictly true"

b) by all means use "themes" from letters you have seen on the internet, but don't straight copy : not only does it risk you saying something not appropriate to your situation, but they'll have seen it before, and your own words will 'ring true' and be more persuasive than direct copying from internet forums. 

[Andres1974]

Hi all, 

 

I just wanted to thank you all for your help. I followed your advise, and received a letter where they are prepared to close the file for £74.70, which I am definitely going to do. Lesson learned. 

 

 

[dx100uk]

hey well done

 

please try and donate to keep us here

 

well done CAG members too

 

dx

 

[Andres1974]

Will do. Thanks again

[honeybee13]

Great news, well done Andres.

 

HB