Another negative PayPal balance thread. Please help.

[Namjeff731]

 

Hey guys.

Long story short,

I sold some items on my Ebay,

which a supplier was then supposed to send to them.

 

After almost 4k of sales,

they took their cut (95% of the money) and vanished.

 

Now I'm left with 3 angry buyers who want a refund, and no money.

 

My PayPal account is connected to my bank still which I cannot remove since one buyer already opened a case against me.

I'm aware they may pass the case to a DCA.

What do I do?

Can they take me to court?

UK.

[CrappoMan]

You can remove the Direct Debit from your bank account.Do it NOW before PayPal take the money. If you have online banking it is very easy to cancel a DD.

If you have linked your PayPal account to a bank card, get in touch with your bank and TELL them to revoke the CPA, and record the call (very important) as they may try to wriggle out of it.

 

To answer your question, no, PayPal don't do court. You will get 6 or so DCA letters, which you can safely ignore. I speak from experience.

[Namjeff731]

I've now removed any direct debits for PayPal and called my bank,

instructing them to cancel any PayPal cpa,

which I also recorded.

 

Is there any chance the buyers could take me to court or will Ebay/PayPal refund them if I don't respond to their cases on PayPal?

 

I appreciate the help as this is quite a frightening situation to be in, owing thousands.

[CrappoMan]

PayPal will most likely refund the buyers, as buyers have more protection through PayPal, hence your negative balance.

If the buyers are refunded then they wouldn't have a reason or standing to take you to court as they would have no loss.

 

My case involved just over £2k and I've heard nothing for the last 4 years.

[Namjeff731]

That's good to hear.

 

I just got off the phone with my bank and they asked for a specific transaction to remove cpa for, as they cannot blanket block all payment taken due to each transaction being separate.

 

He advised me to cancel my card and get a new one which I did,

but my PayPal has my old card details and often re-routes to my current account anyway.

 

Will PayPal still be able to charge me?

[dx100uk]

bank talking rubbish again!

cancelling the card does not remove CPA.

simply instruct them and record the call to not honour ANY cpa to PP/Ebay.

 

theres nothing anyone can do to you.

simplt open a new PP A/C with slightly differing details.

 

done it 4 times over +15yrs with PP and their allowance of this Sc@m in their overall business plan

its one of the main reasons they moved everything to luxy.

 

[Namjeff731]

Is there any exact phrasing anyone can give me so they understand? They seem to be confused. How do I explain when they say I can't?

[dx100uk]

99% of telephone staff don't know the rules.

 

they are just following a script.

 

might be better to write and or ring and ask to speak to a supervisor...and the bank is?

 

dx

 

[Namjeff731]

My bank is natwest.

I will send a letter also, seen as that way they'll definitely have it in writing.

 

Are there any law guidelines I can use e.g.

'I have the right to revoke any continuous payment authorisation for any companies' etc?

[dx100uk]

not surprised there though it might be them

we've seen issues with them not understanding the rules on CPA before.

 

from my notes:

GENERAL NOTES ON CHARGEBACK & Continuous Payment Authority & BACS 
 .....
 We have been telling people to put a letter into their bank instructing them 
not to make any payments under any circumstances to these companies
 .
http://whatconsumer.co.uk/visa-debit-chargeback/- it works!
usually this should be done using the number on your debit card
 .
 banks MUST follow written intructions from their customers !
.
CANCELLING YOUR DEBIT CARD DOES NOT STOP CPA'S
 .
 This fsa guide has now been updated:
 .
http://www.fsa.gov.uk/static/pubs/consumer_info/know_your_rights_guide.pdf
http://www.fca.org.uk/news/continuous-payment-authorities-your-right-to-cancel
https://www.fca.org.uk/consumers/unauthorised-payments-account
 .
 Here's the text:
 .
 Cancelling a regular
 card payment:
 .
 When you give your credit or debit card details to a company and authorise them to take regular payments from your account, 
 such as for a gym membership or magazine subscription,
 it is known as a ‘recurring transaction’ or ‘continuous payment authority’.
 .
These are often confused with direct debits, but do not offer the same guarantee if the amount or date of the payment changes.
 .
 In most cases, regular payments can be cancelled by telling the company taking the payments. 
 .
 However, 
 you have the right to cancel them directly with your bank or card issuer by telling it that you have stopped permission for the payments. 
 Your bank or card issuer must then stop them – it has no right to insist that you agree this first with the company taking the payments.
 .
 Be aware, though, that you will still be responsible for paying any money that you owe.
and that CANELLING YOUR CARD WILL NOT STOP THE CPA
 .
 ..
 .
 New june 2013
 .
 Regulator orders Banks and mutuals to review complaints about not cancelling recurring payments from November 2009.
 .
 Consumers who have set up a regular payment from their account will now be able to successfully cancel that arrangement 
 by contacting their card provider, the Financial Conduct Authority said.
 .
 The FCA has been examining how easy it is for customers to cancel Continuous Payment Authorities (CPAs) 
 due either to payday lendersicon or for other regular payments such as subscriptions or gymicon memberships.
 .
 CPAs, which are also commonly called recurring transactions or recurring payments, 
 are relatively easy to set up but can be hard to cancel, causing problems for consumers trying to manage their finances,the FCA said.
 .
 Now, following the FCA review of how the largest high street banks and mutuals process requests to cancel CPAs, they have agreed that they will ensure that when 
 a customer asks for a recurring payment to end, that will be sufficient to cancel the arrangement. They have also confirmed that should a payment go through by 
 mistake following cancellation by a customer the customer will be refunded immediately.
 .
 In addition to securing this commitment, the largest banks and mutuals have agreed to review every individual complaint they have received about the non-
 cancellation of a CPA and to pay redress where payments have continued to be made despite the customer cancelling the arrangement. This applies to all complaints 
 since November 2009 when the Financial Services Authority, the FCA’s predecessor, began regulating banking conduct.
 .
 Clive Adamson, the FCA’s director of supervision, said: “It’s important that consumers are confident that banks are meeting their everyday banking needs. Today 
 customers can be confident that when they ask for a Continuous Payment Authority to be cancelled – it will be cancelled - and that it can be done easily. 
 .
“We recognise that historically this is an area where some customers have struggled but the banks and mutuals have responded positively to our work on this issue. 
 From now on we expect them to be getting this right. In addition, they have committed to review past complaints.”
.
 .
 Also mentioned your displeasure that as whomever took your money had obviously attempted this many times 
 probably activating your banks own anti fraud software - nobody had the decency to inform my you this was going on.?

.
 .In the FSA's own words:
 .
 ..
 What should I do about a payment from my account that I didn’t authorise?
 .
 Your bank must refund an unauthorised transaction. 
 Money can only be taken from your account if you have authorised the transaction 
 or if your bank can prove you were at fault – 
.
see below.
 Contact your bank immediately if you notice an unauthorised payment from your account.
.
 If you are sure you did not authorise the payment, you can claim a refund. 
.
 However, your bank does not have to refund you if you do not tell it about the payment until 13 months
 or more after the date it left your account.
 .
 Your bank must refund an unauthorised transaction
 .
 ------------------
 .
 Your bank may only refuse a refund for an unauthorised transaction if:
 .
 ? it can prove you authorised the transaction 
– though your bank cannot simply say that use of your password, 
 card and PIN proves you authorised a payment; or
.
 ? it can prove you are at fault because you acted fraudulently, 
 or because you deliberately, 
 or with gross negligence, failed to protect the details of your card, PIN or password in a way that allowed the transaction
 .
 -----------------------
 .
 How quickly must my bank refund me for an unauthorised transaction?
 .
 The bank must make the refund immediately unless it has evidence that one of the above reasons applies. 

 Your bank may ask you to answer some questions and fill out a form confirming what has happened, 
 but it cannot delay your refund while it waits for you to return the form.

 If the bank has evidence that one of the above reasons for refusing a refund applies, 
 it may investigate before making a refund 
 but must look into it as quickly as possible. 

 If your bank rejects your claim for a refund it should explain why.
 If the transaction was on a credit card, the refund may not happen immediately. 

 But the card issuer cannot charge interest or ask for repayment of the amount unless it can prove you are liable to pay
 

 

 

[Namjeff731]

This is infinitely helpful, thank you so much. It may be because the 3 payments are currently on hold on PayPal, and the cases have not been ended yet. What should I say if the bank staff say 'which transaction would you like to prevent?' The 3 on my PayPal? Thanks for the support you guys, its reassuring.

[Namjeff731]

Update: I just had another lengthy phone call with my bank. They said it is not possible to stop payments to a third party retailer as that wouldn't work. After explaining many different ways that PayPal have my details and I wish to prevent them taking any payments, I was met with the same answer. I explained several times I was not trying to cancel a direct debit, but a CPA. She told me if it was Netflix or a gym membership, it would be different.

[Bazooka Boo]

55 minutes ago, Namjeff731 said:

Update: I just had another lengthy phone call with my bank. They said it is not possible to stop payments to a third party retailer as that wouldn't work. After explaining many different ways that PayPal have my details and I wish to prevent them taking any payments, I was met with the same answer. I explained several times I was not trying to cancel a direct debit, but a CPA. She told me if it was Netflix or a gym membership, it would be different.

1

    

You need to speak to a supervisor, not the first clown that answers the phone.

[Namjeff731]

I had another in depth phone call, this time with the floor supervisor. He explained to me that because I'm trying to stop several one off payments, not recurring payments, that they cannot block PayPal from taking money from my account, and that even if they did put in place a PCA cancellation, they could push it through anyway, as the responsibility lies with PayPal. My card is cancelled but it looks like I cant do anything more. Suggestions?

[ericsbrother]

That isnt true, they just dont want to foot the bill themselves. The CPA to Paypal is covered by the DD guarantee so they would be wiser to stop them going out in the first place.

 

The other lesson to learn is dont sell things you dont own as you are liable so can still be sued by the unhappy buyers for non performance of contract.

[Namjeff731]

Over the last few months I've read almost every page and forum there is concerning paypal debt and collectors, because I have my own paypal debt of 2.3k.

 

Some say if you are unresponsive and ignore debt collectors, you will end up having to pay court fees much higher than the original bill, others say you can ignore them and they will just go away, with no court case ever happening.

 

This site seems to be by far the most positive in terms of certainty of not having to pay them, although I dont know if this is due to a higher level of experience and knowledge here, a lack of knowledge everywhere else or both.

All stories seem to go MIA after a while or be over 5 years old,

 

I'm looking for any tangible stories of the long-term.

In short, I do legitimately owe this money but I was scammed by someone else into doing so (see my other post) and to pay it back would make life hard for me for the next few years while I pay off the money, and I want to avoid any mounting costs.

 

PayPal do not have access to my bank as they have not taken any money.

I have received no letters and so assume they are being sent to an old address, although this does make me worry if I did recieve a court summons I would miss it.

 

I'd be very grateful for an up to date discussion on these matters and any personal experiences anyone can offer. 

 

-b

[dx100uk]

topics merged.

 

there is nothing that can happen to you...end of.

 

there no update as people cant be bothered to update a nothing burger.

 

Some say if you are unresponsive and ignore debt collectors, you will end up having to pay court fees much higher than the original bill

 

but not on paypal debts.....

[Namjeff731]

Thanks for the reassurance, my faith started to waiver when I got a text from a DCA about the Ebay fees (£377) which I paid seen as it wasnt paypal and I'm sure ebay are more efficient in collecting money. I blocked PayPal's number but they still leave me several voicemails a day. Will update.

[Namjeff731]

Small update. Wescot have now started perusing me, to which I immediately sent a letter spelling out the necessity to stop all contact until they prove the debt is mine. Since they shouldn't have my signature as I didnt sign anything, hopefully this will work. Any experience with these guys?

-b 

[renegadeimp]

Ignore them. Theyre a DCA.  DOnt even consider communicating with them. Paypal wont go anywhere near court, and wescot can never do a single thing anyway.

[dx100uk]

opps pointless letter tennis match started...

 

 

[Namjeff731]

Got my 'we are looking into your account, this may take several weeks' letter response from my demand of a signed agreement as proof of my debt, which should not exist. Hopefully paypal's evidence is as poor as everyone says.

-b

[dx100uk]

as my last post

[Wigwambam]

Hi, I’m in a similar situation to you but with a lot more negative balance (a lot more!!!) how have things been since your last post? 

[Namjeff731]

hi all.

 

In April 2019 I posted about owing 2.3k to PayPal, who sold my debt to Wescot.

 

Since then there has been a long war of words, mostly thin assertions that 'PayPal has advised us that...', and signatures from staff at PayPal that are supposed to prove that I owe the debt.

 

I've recently moved house, and am considering my options with the case going forward; I had initially intended to cut them off after the last year with no definitive proof, saying in my last letter that I trusted the matter was closed, providing no forward address. 

 

However, after doing some more research recently I'm slightly concerned about what might happen if I dont keep them at arms distance with letter disputes, and that they may sue me and add the court bills through a CCJ (County Court judgement.) What is the liklihood of this or them finding my new address? 

 

I'm also slightly concerned how my letting agency may react if against odds Wescot send bailiffs to my previous address, as this was with the same letting agency I use with my current house, and also where they will likely continue to send letters.

 

Advice?

 

Thanks.

-b