MotoNovo Finance - Jaguar on HPi with mileage discrepancy

[BankFodder]

Please note that I have added some points.

 

Also I have sent a tweet out to the finance company which links to this thread so on Monday they will be aware of this discussion and the advice you are receiving. That may serve to add further pressure in addition to the letter

[yogibear1]

do I write a continuation of my complaint as i have already sent a complaint letter

 

On ‎13‎/‎04‎/‎2019 at 18:32, BankFodder said:

Also I have sent a tweet out to the finance company which links to this thread so on Monday they will be aware of this discussion and the advice you are receiving. That may serve to add further pressure in addition to the letter

This won't cause me problems with the finance company, will it?

[johnjordan]

Just a thought but was there a previous MOT certificate when you purchased the car?

[BankFodder]

On ‎13‎/‎04‎/‎2019 at 18:45, yogibear1 said:

This won't cause me problems with the finance company, will it?

Not at all

 

On ‎13‎/‎04‎/‎2019 at 18:38, yogibear1 said:

do I write a continuation of my complaint as i have already sent a complaint letter

 

Quote

I am writing further to my letter of XXX  and  for the avoidance of doubt ... etc I am putting you on notice that 28 dys set by you is not acceptable to me ... etc

 

[Manxman in exile]

yogi - I would certainly be following BankFodder's advice at this moment, but I'm also interested in the points I think Buyer-Beware and johnjordan are hinting at.

 

What does the MOT history of the car show in terms of mileage  (in particular the last one before you bought it)?  Looking at that history, is it feasible that it's been a simple mileage typo in the past?  You state a discrepancy of "26,000" miles but I'm assuming you've rounded this figure.  Is the actual figure divisible by nine?  I ask this because a difference divisible by nine can be an indication of a transposition error.  (eg 64,000 recorded as 46,000 = difference of 18,000 = 9 * 2,000).  Of course, if this has happened (and it's not unknown) the MOT mileage history would be all over the place and I would have expected it to have been spotted before now.

 

I would follow BankFodder's advice but I'd also check the MOT mileage history to see what the figures tell me.  (In the case of a 26k discrepancy I would have expected - depending on previous usage - either a suspiciously low annual mileage or even negative mileage!).

 

But I'm no expert, so stick with BankFodder...

[dx100uk]

if you PM Buyer beware orif you are not allowed

pm any siteteam member the reg number and we'll fed in on.

looks like BW has MOT database access and as any friendly MOT centre will do [if you have one local to you]

they'll printout all the years of mileage readings that have been recorded on the mot online system

[buyer-beware]

DX. The registration is on the HPI check with the mileage and MOT info. If you look at that report properly, you can see the ownership of the car hadn’t changed at the moment of the discrepancy.

 

The far greater majority of cars are clocked prior to their first mot birthday, NOT when it is in perfect view for every database to see. If you actually study the overall mileage it looks IMO clearly like a simple clerical error, yes it drops down but then it leaps by up by 46k (in a year) !! There is no concerning reason for it because the keeper hadn’t changed.

 

If I was the OP, I would ask the HPI report team to investigate the discrepancy (that’s their job) also, contact Jaguar for real time service work with mileages and take the car to Jaguar for them to check the ECU for any mileage changes, you will then have definite proof. I bet you a crate of beer it’s a simply a clerical error, that’s exactly what it looks like and  believe me I have much experience in sorting out many of these in the past. 

 

OP. Once, the discrepancy has been investigated properly and confirmed an error, the flag will be removed, you will also get it in writing and it will NOT affect future resale.

 

If it cannot be cleared then follow BF’s route. The car isn’t as described. 

 

HTH

 

 

 

[yogibear1]

so if it is a mot input error it can be removed showing no discrepancy on the hpi system then?

[BankFodder]

I don't know the answer to that – but that would be the single opportunity for the finance company to repair the defect. After that they would be required to refund you or replace the vehicle at your option.

Somebody else will come along who knows much better whether or not the erroneous record can be corrected so that it shows absolutely no trace. I think that is essential. I don't think that you should be required to accept any compromise or any fudge

[buyer-beware]

If it is a clerical error isn’t a defect it’s simply a simply a clerical error. And yes, DVSA will delete or amend the error when confirmed. Simple

 

I would hold back trying to reject a vehicle over a potential clerical error until you know the actual facts first. Diving in all guns blazing, threatening this and that won’t change the fundamental facts. When you know exactly where you stand then you can make and educated decision on which route to follow. 

 

[BankFodder]

I would not hold back from rejecting the car. I would assert my rights now within the six months window. Once you have done that then your position is reserved. Then you are open to negotiate with the finance company.

If you hold back so that you assert your rights after the six-month window then you will have sacrifice a position and also lost a negotiating hand.

[buyer-beware]

On ‎14‎/‎04‎/‎2019 at 09:52, yogibear1 said:

so if it is a mot input error it can be removed showing no discrepancy on the hpi system then?

Absolutely yes. 

 

On ‎14‎/‎04‎/‎2019 at 10:38, BankFodder said:

I would not hold back from rejecting the car. I would assert my rights now within the six months window. Once you have done that then your position is reserved. Then you are open to negotiate with the finance company.

If you hold back so that you assert your rights after the six-month window then you will have sacrifice a position and also lost a negotiating hand.

 BankFodder, you can’t reject a vehicle on a whim, the finance company will simply not accept a rejection. They have every right to fully investigate the error for their own complete clarity. The clerical error, if it isjust an error can simply be deleted and you have absolutely no case to make. 

 

Dont you think getting the foundations right is best advice before taking the bull in a china shop approach. 

[BankFodder]

Here we go again. The statue makes it very clear that if there is a defect within the first six months then either a 30 day rule applies or a six month rule applies. The statute says nothing about the quality of the defect or whether it undermines the purpose of the contract. Beyond six months, the ordinary rules of contract apply and that means that you have to examine the effect of the defect/breach upon the purpose of the contract. Within the first six months there is no such need. If you are applying the six month rule then the dealer/finance company (in this case) has a single opportunity to remedy the defect and if they failed to do so then the purchaser has the right to reject the item.

The statute is very clear. There are no other interpretations – but if you disagree then please refer to your sources and let us know so that we can understand why you have a different opinion.

The purchaser here should absolutely reserve his position so that he takes the benefit of the six month rule under the Consumer Rights Act if the finance company is unable or unwilling to take steps to remedy the defect.

After the six-month rule has expired in this case, the finance company might quite reasonably say that this defect has simply affected the value of the vehicle but  has not undermined the purpose of the contract which is to provide a working vehicle. In that case the purchaser might be left with the vehicle is difficult to sell and is not as described but he will have to do put up with the defect and pass it on to the next purchaser with that defect in place.

By asserting his right before the expiry of the six months, as I have said, the purchaser reserves his extremely powerful right under the Consumer Rights Act.

Please don't simply respond with a bland contradiction. It's unhelpful. People are entitled to know the basis of your opinion.

[yogibear1]

I am no expert but Bankfodders explanation of the 6-month rule sounds spot on, it's better to be safe than sorry.

There is a defect as I was told by 2 traders they would not touch my car with a mileage discrepancy so to me that's serious.

 

Why was I not told about this mileage discrepancy when I purchased the car? why didn't the seller get it removed?

Why am i feeling nervous about selling the car?

[buyer-beware]

Im not trying to antagonise you BF.

You’ve given your help, advice and opinion, am I not allowed to give mine ? 

 

I’m just giving balanced advice.  

Can’t OP take whoever’s advice he pleases, as per your own terms and conditions, you are “all” laymen, non experts, non professionals. 

 

On ‎14‎/‎04‎/‎2019 at 11:05, yogibear1 said:

I am no expert but Bankfodders explanation of the 6-month rule sounds spot on, it's better to be safe than sorry.

There is a defect as I was told by 2 traders they would not touch my car with a mileage discrepancy so to me that's serious.

 

Why was I not told about this mileage discrepancy when I purchased the car? why didn't the seller get it removed?

Why am i feeling nervous about selling the car?

I agree, yes it does and I absolutely agree with you, but the finance company aren’t stupid, they will also need to know the bottom line on the car. Is it straight with a simple error or is it bent... either which way you want to get rid and either way you aren’t going to be out of pocket. It it’s an error, get it deleted, if it isn’t return it. 

[BankFodder]

It's up to the hire purchase company to make sure that the problem is corrected. If you want to do it yourself and you think you can manage it so that it leaves no trace then go ahead. There's nothing to stop you. But it's not your responsibility. It's a matter between the finance company and the dealer. The dealer had a responsibility to make sure that the car was completely correct in all its particulars – and they failed to do that.
To suggest that the purchaser is acting on a whim is really quite ridiculous. I'm not sure what kind of culture you find acceptable that one is required to pay 100% of the price and yet receive less than 100% of what one has been promised.

I'm quite sure that if the purchaser had said to the dealer that he was only going to pay them 98% of the price, they would have objected very loudly and refused to part with the car – and very reasonably so.

I'm sorry that you seem to be suggesting that a consumer should accept mediocre standards whilst a dealer should not.

[yogibear1]

I agree with you BankFodder it's up to the finance company to put things right,  I bought the car in good faith.

 

I'm suspicious as when I spoke to the finance company they said they have just done a hpi report and they can see they did one when I bought the car and said to me there is NO discrepancy showing, clearly there was as i did one and it clearly showed up, so why the deceit?

 

I have done a little homework and its not 100% guaranteed that the mileage can be put right with no flag. 

 

So the ball is in the seller's court.

 

 

Edited April 14, 2019 by yogibear1

[BankFodder]

Except it's probably in your court to keep control of the situation and to dominate the finance company. If the finance company won't put pressure on the seller then there is really no reason for the seller to do anything. Actually, I wonder whether you might have some rights against the seller under the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act. However for simplicity it might be better simply to keep on at the finance company. I think that you will wield most leverage if they think that you are going to force them to accept rejection of the vehicle and to insist on your refund plus costs and that you are likely to go to the ombudsman. I think this should be your position at the moment – and it's up to the high purchase company to extricate themselves from the problem if they can by clearing up the mileage discrepancy record – so it leaves absolutely no trace.

They have got powerful rights against the dealer because they can easily sue the dealer for breach of contract if they need to – but I can imagine that the dealer relies on them to finance other vehicles and so the dealer will be very anxious to behave correctly towards the finance company and of course this will benefit you.

He certainly shouldn't be accepting their unilateral timescales – particularly when they are apparently 28 days – and even then simply with a promise to revert to you and no promise of the solution. This is wholly unacceptable. Once again, make sure that you have asserted your rights under the consumer rights act and that your letter to them makes this absolutely clear.

[yogibear1]

I have written the letter that you suggested earlier and it's being sent recorded tomorrow.

I will keep you posted as I've never been through this situation before.

 

Again many thanks for your help.

[BankFodder]

Well double check the wording that it clearly asserts your right to reject under the consumer rights act. I can't quite remember what I said

[yogibear1]

Thank you for your reply dated 4^th April 2019

I notice that you say that you will revert to me in 28 days. I'm sorry to say that this timescale is excessive. I have supplied you with all the documents you need to make a rapid decision and I'm not prepared to be saddled with this vehicle for any longer than necessary as I have to start preparing myself to purchase an alternative vehicle with an accurate mileage, which is not recorded with a mileage discrepancy and which does conform to its description.

 

The vehicle which I have purchased through yourselves is clearly defective and as such, I am rejecting it under the Consumer Rights Act 2015.
I require you to make immediate arrangements to collect the vehicle from me and to let me have a refund of my purchase price plus my reasonable ancillary losses which so far amount to road tax, insurance, servicing and a new MOT

Accordingly, please treat this letter as my formal complaint. You have eight weeks to produce a resolution failing which you are required to provide me with a final response and we will then escalate the matter to the Financial Ombudsman Service.

Please Respond by Return.

Regards

[BankFodder]

Thanks. I suppose that does the trick.

I would headed up "formal complaint" so that it catches their eye.

[yogibear1]

Formal Complaint

 

 

this is at the top of the letter

[buyer-beware]

Don’t you think it’s prudent to know the facts. OP paid for a vehicle check, simply ask them to investage before you start accusing this, accusing that, threatening this threats that, assuming this, assuming that. I really cannot believe your approach, it’s like let’s start a war before you have an enemy.

 

I agee the garage should of sorted it, it’s poor service..but have you even asked the retailer ? Common have you follow my initial advice and asked them ? 

 

You are starting and assuming  WW3 before you even know where you stand. Get the truth, if it’s clocked do your worst, it it isnt simply sort it an move on like gentlemen. 

 

Is it me, or am iI the only one who is showing some common sense.

 

Oh and Btw, OP I agree your retailer should of been completely honest, upfront and  transparent with you right from the start. Who knows why they haven’t, maybe they didn’t know, maybe they did, it’s not wise to make assumptions though until you know the facts. 

 

OP, Get the foundations right first, know the facts and then you are in the position of power. 

[Manxman in exile]

I'm inclined to agree.  I'd want to get to the bottom of the mileage issue (the MOT history should tell a story) before rejecting the car.  I don't see how a clerical error (if that is what it is) can amount to a defect.  Unfortunately the OP seems to be running out of time and needs to act quickly.

 

For the benefit of other posters, you only need a car's registration number to view MOT history.  Mileage discrepancies (or at least some of them) should show up there.  (I would always check MOT history before buying a used car).

 

26,000 does seem a very significant error though,  not to have been picked up before (eg by the last vendor).