ECP ANPR PCN - overstay - esso garage longbridge roundabout horley surrey

[Andy77799]

Hi all, my friend has got a ticket for staying too long at esso horley surrey longbridge roundabout, he didn`t realise there was a limit.

Last time another friend got a ticket for being there 4 hours which we had proof that he wasn`t

would the letter be the same

provable to be elsewhere and minded to sue? could say he went back in???

 

Andy

 

[BankFodder]

We absolutely don't approve of this kind of parking control bounty hunting techniques here. We help everybody we can to defeat them.

On the other hand, I gather that you are proposing to rely on some faked letter or something – and I'm afraid that we wouldn't get involved in that either.

I really do wish you the best of luck of challenging these companies – you haven't told us which company it is – but this isn't the way that we do things.

[Andy77799]

No the driver went in for fuel and a hot dog and parked while he ate it then left but this took him over the 15 minute limit which he didn`t know existed!

 

You only really see the signs if you look for them, he fills up there twice a week and didn`t know,

 

when another friend last year got a ticket at same place for being there 4 hours!

He was in there and home in less than 15mins and we had cctv proof.

 

This current friend ate his hot dog so was over the 15 mins,

in the first instance last time CAG asked if he went back in later which he didn`t but you gave me this template

 

There has been no breach of contract,

my vehicle was provably elsewhere between those hours you claim it was parked at MRH Esso Petrol Station – Horley.

 

I therefore put it to “strict proof” that you put it there for the time you claim or I am minded to sue you for damages for your breach of the Data Protection Act for obtaining my keeper details without reasonable cause as per VCS v Philip, Liverpool CC Dec 2016.

 

So was wondering if the same template should be used again?

 

sorry it was ECP 30 dorset Sq, London NW16Qj

[FTMDave]

15-minute limit, when they also sell hot food (and presumably coffee too).  What are you supposed to do, munch the hot dog (and scald yourself) while driving?!

 

Surely this is an unfair contract, never mind the 10-minute grace period and the various codes of conduct about not being predatory.

 

Your friend won't be paying a penny, as long as s/he doesn't make mistakes in cooperating with these fleecers … the experts will be on in the morning to help.

 

 

 

 

[dx100uk]

https://cse.google.com/cse?cx=partner-pub-8889411648654839:3134625398&q=esso garage PCN&oq=esso garage PCN&gs_l=partner-generic.3...13817.18968.0.19240.15.14.0.0.0.0.949.6050.4j2j0j2j6-5.13.0.gsnos%2Cn%3D13...0.5273j3063491j16...1.34.partner-generic..15.0.0.2W8mXx5WOlA

[Andy77799]

dx100uk not sure what your link was for? eagerly awaiting advise for friend though. recommended cag to 100 of customers for various thing in the back of the taxi.

petrol station sign says if using jet wash, register reg number with cashier(if you look up) but nothing about eating a sandwich/hot dog!

[ericsbrother]

lets start with the basics,

we need to see the NTK your friend was sent through the post as it will have a lot of the information we need to offer advice on half of what he needs to challenge this.

 

Often the parking co's cant even get this right despite the fact it is what they need to do to create a liability and thus be able to ask for money in the first place. Post it up with personal details and their references/bar codes redacted but we need to see the dates and times.

 

In the meanwhile he should NOT contact the parking co but he might want to find out who actually owns the service station and let them know that he is disturbed by their willingness to allow a third party to rob their customers blind especially when they can be held jointly liable for their actions. If they wont agree to tell the parking co to cancel then there is no reason to continue to talk or correspond with them.

 

We will also need to see the signage at the site and especially what you can see of it as you trun in from the public highway.

This is about contracts, not parking so if you cant see what they are offering then it isnt a valid contract regardless of what it says.

 

[brassnecked]

DX's link lists similar cases and how they were tackled.  If a garage sells hot food it can be assumed the purchaser might well eat it at the site. so a minimum of 30 minutes is reasonable if not more.  Especially if it is time for a break in say a  4 tonne Sprinter with a tachograph in which case the compulsory break may well be 45 minutes.

[ericsbrother]

it doesnt change a contract but it may well be considered unfair.

This is something that judges rarely have to go into but it is all about the equality between the parties, 

is there a level playing field where each side gets something out of the deal.

 

It can be argued that a third party contract at a site where hot food is sold for consumtion on the premises would need to address the time that it would take to enter the site, get fuel and then queue to get said hot food and then consume it and that 15 minutes isnt in any way a realisitc amount of time to do all of that. 

 

The site owners would then have to show some logic to their decision to allow this short time and them saying "nowt to do with us guv, it is the rapacious parking co's fault" wont get anywhere.

 

Now what hasnt beed mentioned is the favourite of ours and that is the planning consent for the signage and the ANPR cameras.

 

Both the garage co and the parking co are equally liable to ensure that PP is granted and that means if a motorist is so minded they can go after the landlord for abuse of the DVLA KADOE contract instead of  or as well as the parking co using the rules of agency.

(ie the parking co claim they are managing the place to ensure it maximises use for LL then that is agency so LL culpable for the parking co's misdeeds)

 

This isnt somehting that you want to be getting onto yet, try route 1 with site owner and if they wont tell parking co to cancel it is something to let them know about should the threat of court start to cloud the horizon

[Andy77799]

The bottom of letter didn`t scan but says

with a copy of the hire agreement and a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement. Please note that we have a right to recover unpaid parking charges from you.

 

PP blank reverse.pdf PP blank.pdf

 

what more can I do......?

 

[dx100uk]

the more you read the threads in post 5 the stronger we become.

then follow what EB says in post 9.

[Andy77799]

So what should my friend do next? appeal? ignore? popla?

[dx100uk]

no read post 7 action finding out who owns the land from the .gov.uk land registry site

then onto the local council site

they should have a website

and a planning section

findout if the signs and or the cameras? have planning permission.

 

its all here already you have to read the advice given to you.

 

dx

 

[Andy77799]

I did, but struggling to understand it all,  have tried searching planning but can`t find anything, tried reigate and banstead and mole valley and west sussex as the garage is on the border of all 3 councils.

I guess not finding it doesn`t mean they didn`t get planning for the cameras or signs

 

[dx100uk]

I very much doubt they did TBH.

 

no harm in ringing the planning dept of one of thiose and asking who holds the info.

did you findout the owner of the land the garage is on from landregistry .gov.uk stie

 

I also see you've travelled this road before

 

[Andy77799]

Yes before we had proof it was false info. Have to pay for land registery info. I will get friend to ring planning.

 

[Andy77799]

If I am doing it correctly I can only find one planning for esso and that is for stand alone ATM machine and 2 bollards.

[Andy77799]

my mistake, wrong garage

 

Edited April 14, 2019 by Andy77799
error

[Andy77799]

Permission is sought for a single storey extension to the northern side of the building to allow the creation of an accessible disabled toilet. A ramp to the main door will also be created along with alterations to the night pay point to allow disabled access. The proposed extension will be 0.8 metres

That was under crawley council planning!!! The bollards one was Reigate and banstead council.

[Andy77799]

so I have gone through 36 pages of applications in Mole Valley, nothing

 

[FTMDave]

Good news, so you know they have no planning permission for their signs, which is illegal.  Illegality = no contract with them.  A first string to your bow.

 

Also do as suggested by EB in post 9.  Get on to the petrol station and point out you were a genuine customer, you stayed longer than the 15 minutes allowed in order to spend more money, and you want them to get the fleecers to cancel.  This approach has worked several times in other threads.

 

Try to be "nice" about it at first, if they won't cooperate then later you can threaten them with the legal consequences of getting into bed with these conmen.  

 

 

[ericsbrother]

Try Esso customer services people and ask them who holds the franchise/owns the site. It is likely to be a small chain. Another tack is to ask the local council business rates  or planning sections.

Looking up ther phone number of the place and asking whoever answers the phone should get you the answer as well, they may well tell you tt contact the parking co but be presistent in obtaining the owner details. It will be on the wall behind the counter so any employee should be able to read it off

[Andy77799]

so if they don`t have planning for the signs or cameras, is that enough?

 

[dx100uk]

and what does that mean if they don't...

think about it...

 

[Andy77799]

I am thinking but trying to help a friend, literally just got off the phone to him and he is ringing the 3 councils about planning tomorrow about the signs and anpr

I didn`t find anything and searched today again under exxon.

So if HE also can`t find anything about planning for the above is that enough to make the contract void and a simple letter or ignore, good enough.

OR

do you mean that they don`t need planning PP for such items??? as was suggested that they do above?